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Thread: Masi 16v valve cover

  1. #1
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Masi 16v valve cover

    I'm just wondering if there is a trick to removing and installing the Masi 16v valve cover without removing the cam gears first?

    I installed the valve cover and timing belt today on the SL, but I'm having a hard time verifying the cam timing is correct. I can only seem to remove and reinstall the valve cover with the cam gears removed. Since the holes for lining up the cams is under the cover, and I can't have the cam gears installed while installing the cover, it's turning into a big pain in the ---.

    So anyway, I lined up all the timing marks, then removed the cam gears so I could install the valve cover. I install the valve cover and then the cam gears. So far so good......but then I have to torque the cam gear bolts and that makes the gears move a bit, which makes it impossible to know for sure if the cams are in the right position or not. Hope this makes sense.

    I wish there was a way to do the valve cover with the cam gears already torqued on, but the valve cover goes inside the cam gears a bit and won't allow it to go on or off with them in the way.

    Also, the new valve cover gasket seems to fit perfect.

  2. #2
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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    With an exotic engine come exotic problems...

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    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Quote Originally Posted by Wastelands Warrior View Post
    With an exotic engine come exotic problems...
    Oh man tell me about it. It's really not too bad but some things have been way frustrating. She's getting there though.
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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Mine comes on and off without removing the gears. It is a bit tricky. IIRC, first get it loose, then lift slightly, then move it toward the driver's side slightly so it can get out from under the inside edge of the gears, then lift with the driver's side slightly higher. In thinking about it, you can't put the rods through the cams to time the cams in the first place with the valve cover on, so it has to be able to go on with the gears in place.
    John Laing

    "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
    -- Alexis de Tocqueville

    "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
    --Ayn Rand

    "To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that."
    -- Justice Antonin Scalia

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    Oh man tell me about it. It's really not too bad but some things have been way frustrating. She's getting there though.
    Dayum that is pure engine porn!!! Looks great!!!

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Yeah, getting the VC off the Masi can be a pain. John's method seems about right. You sure that your engine has the correct pulleys on it? The Masi cam pulleys *look* the same as 8V ones, but they are ~.200" narrower because of this issue! (did you know? )

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    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Yeah, getting the VC off the Masi can be a pain. John's method seems about right. You sure that your engine has the correct pulleys on it? The Masi cam pulleys *look* the same as 8V ones, but they are ~.200" narrower because of this issue! (did you know? )
    Oh man I totally forgot about that! The do have '974' stamped in them like a regular turbo square tooth gear, but I will measure them and compare them with some other Masi 16v sprockets and 8v sprockets. I also have a pair of Fidanza adjustable cam sprockets for the Masi 16v that I got from Todd so I'll have to see what's what.

    Another idea I thought of would be to remove the rubber grommets for the valve cover studs and that might give me a little more wiggle room to get it up and out of there.

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    If they are not the 16V gears, wiggle all you want but the VC wont clear them. I had thought the Masi gears were .130 narrower but Reaper is usually pretty right on with his numbers so... Engine bay is looking sweet Jeremy

    Also, not sure if the design was changed in the later spark plug wires but a couple of the ealy sets I had would 'push off' the plugs when everything got hot creating a miss. My fix was to use some sharp end nip pliers to trim the 'hats' flat effectively moving them 3/8 closer to the plug when snapped into place. RDI may have made a change to later sets, not sure.

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    OK, so I measured the cam gears that are currently on the SL's Masi 16v engine and they are 1.105" wide. I then measured an 8v square tooth cam gear and it was 1.200" wide. Both cam gears have '974' stamped in them.

    So it looks like my 16v cam gears are only about .095" thinner. I'll have to look around and see if I can find some thinner ones off another engine I think.


    EDIT: I found a 2nd set of Masi 16v cam gears and they were slightly wider at 1.110" and I also measured the Fidanza adjustable cam gears I got from Todd and they are 1.105".

    EDIT #2: FINALLY I was able to get the darn thing off. It is so tight it scrapes the valve cover on the exhaust cam gear. I was kinda bummed because I've refinished it wish wrinkle black, but oh well, nobody will see it anyway. Man it is TIGHT! Removing the grommets doesn't seem to help at all.
    Last edited by iTurbo; 05-27-2017 at 01:31 PM.

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Maybe you could trim 10 or 20 thou off the interfering part of the valve cover with a mill file?
    John Laing

    "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
    -- Alexis de Tocqueville

    "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
    --Ayn Rand

    "To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that."
    -- Justice Antonin Scalia

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Jeremy, thanks for measuring the gears! Now I know it's more like .100"!

    I ran into the same thing with my VC. The wrinkle was enough to make it interfere! LOL I wonder...could you "shim" the gear out just a little?

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Jeremy, thanks for measuring the gears! Now I know it's more like .100"!

    I ran into the same thing with my VC. The wrinkle was enough to make it interfere! LOL I wonder...could you "shim" the gear out just a little?
    No problem, I'd love to help anybody in any way I can and I'm thankful for all the help I've gotten from the forum so far (huge!)

    Now keep in mind I haven't got mine running yet, but I have done the timing belt and turned the engine over several times via wrench and it looks like another .100" milled off the inside edge of the exhaust cam gear wouldn't be a problem before running into timing belt wear. A spacer could probably work too, but it's really the inside diameter of the gear that is the problem. But, now that I know how to go through the motions of getting the cover R&R'd it really isn't so bad.

    I gotta say, (even though it isn't running yet), I really like the new valve cover gasket that was made by joelzip. It fit very nicely and has little 'nubs' to keep it in place in the groove while installing it (including the spark plug O-rings). The half-moon pieces seem very sturdy and stock-like and fit perfectly into the grooves in the cylinder head. A+!

  13. #13
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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Agreed on the VC gasket! I have one on the engine slated to go into the TC and I have the exact review you do! Excellent product!

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    You can loosen the cam gear bolts and slide the gears outward without taking completely off. It will give you enough room and you won't need to redue timing. I have done this. Works great. Good luck

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Quote Originally Posted by Holset8vOmni View Post
    You can loosen the cam gear bolts and slide the gears outward without taking completely off. It will give you enough room and you won't need to redue timing. I have done this. Works great. Good luck
    That would work great *but*, how do you retorque the cam gear bolt? I have always used a torque wrench and a large hook/spanner that wraps around the gear and engages the teeth to stop it from spinning. With the belt installed, it's just not possible and I've never felt comfortable putting an impact wrench on it.

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    impact it.. just dont kill it..

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Jeremy,
    I made this tool up like 20 years ago. Similar to the factory tool. Pics in FSM as well. Fits all 4 and 6 hole cam gears. Took like 45 minutes to make.
    Todd
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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Jeremy,
    I made this tool up like 20 years ago. Similar to the factory tool. Pics in FSM as well. Fits all 4 and 6 bolt cam gears. Took like 45 minutes to make.
    Todd
    *forehead smack*, that would be perfect Todd! The hook spanner wrench set that I got from Harbor Freight years ago has worked well on the TI/TII/TIII, but not so convenient on the Masi 16v. Thanks for all your help.

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    Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    people torque the cam gear bolt? hmm. I've always just put it on tight till the engine starts to turn.

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    Angry Re: Masi 16v valve cover

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    people torque the cam gear bolt? hmm. I've always just put it on tight till the engine starts to turn.
    I had an '89 Shadow ES that snapped a cam once. After I towed it home I noticed the cam bolt was finger tight and the cam key was chewed up as if it were cast out of milk chocolate. I've always been careful about that since.

    And yeah, I'm one of those guys that's religious about following the FSM specs as much as possible.

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