Anyone ever use solid hubs with organic disks for street duty?

[4 l-bodies]

Looking for an upgraded disk/PP assembly for a slightly modded turbo application. Lets say 250-275 HP and 300 lbs/ft torque. This would be used with a555 tranny. What I don't want is something grabby AT ALL. Want something that engages like stock or better. Something anyone could drive without complaints. I've had lots of HP clutches before like Clutchnet 4 & 6 puck, TU 4 and 6 puck, Spec, Centerforce, McLeod Rev-lock, RPS, etc., so please don't suggest something like that, as I've already tried those. Forget Kevlar, I've seen enough failures to know those won't hold up. Looking for something that offers upgraded clamping WITHOUT compromising driveability and durability at all.
I was thinking of modified fulcrum PP for ease of pedal pressure providing additional clamping force, combined with as large as possible organic disk. Perhaps using a solid hub instead of sprung disk?
I could envision maybe something like larger diameter Centerforce Dual friction (perhaps with SOLID hub disk), combined with an upgraded pressure plate. Anything like that out there? Looks like Clutchnet has similar disk, but wary of their pressure plates.
Todd

[johnl]

I like your thinking. Subscribed

[OmniLuvr]

i know that "carbon fiber" can actually work for what you want and with a solid hub (1 less failure point), the problem is it wont last very long. what is the intention of the car, and why are you having clutch problems at 300lb of tq?

[Chris W]

You forgot to add that you want the whole package for $49. or less including shipping. LOL!!

I decided to call our clutch guy to see what options we could come up with.

Marc said we should start with a modified fulcrum Stage IV pressure plate which would provide you with the clamp force necessary to meet your performance goals. Regarding the disk you have a few options though. We can go with a stock style 228mm sprung version which will provide the smooth engagement you are looking for, but, it will most likely fall short of your goals. To enhance the combo further you would have to move to a custom 232mm disk. The problem with that is it's only available with heavy duty springs which will not engage as smoothly as the 228mm version. I believe he said that we can go with a custom un-sprung hub but he led me to believe you are moving even further away from the stock smooth engagement you are looking for. Let me know you would like to pursue any of these combinations and I should be able to get you pricing fairly quickly.

Chris-TU

edit: And don't rule out Kevlar so fast. There have been several improvements over the years which resolved prior issues.

[jonnymopar]

I'm running a mildly-modified 2.4L in my car with a 555. I have a TU "yellow" plate with a 6-puck disc, solid hub. If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say I'm probably about 260whp on a good day. Compared to a SPEC clutch I had in there before, this TU clutch is like butter. I don't know if I'd say it engages like stock, honestly I don't think there's an upgraded clutch that does. But I've been in traffic many times with this setup without any issues.

When I was shopping for clutches, someone (may have been Vigo) brought up that a solid hub may actually make a puck clutch smoother, while the sprung hub is better with a continuous-face clutch. I don't know for sure, but there's absolutely no harshness to this solid hub setup in my car right now. For what it's worth, my old SPEC was a sprung hub, 6-puck.

[Vigo]

I tried something similar to what you are talking about, Todd. For my 2.5L turbo van i used a dual diaphragm plate with a stock clutch disc. I figured that with enough clamping force even a stock clutch disc would hold a lot of torque. To my knowledge the only person who has done this and actually backed it up with fast passes was Gaboon who mentioned running low 11s in a Charger with that combo. I haven't dyno'd my van but being a 2.5 @ 20 psi i think it's safe to conservatively say i've put 300+lbft through it on a 3000 lb vehicle on slicks with no hint of slippage so far. And like you mentioned, aside from pedal stiffness (which would be more normal with a moved fulcrum plate) it engages like stock!

Only major difference is I still have a sprung hub. I fully believe at this point that sprung hubs are more of a downside than a benefit for an enthusiast driver. Unfortunately I don't know of an off-the-shelf un-sprung full face organic clutch disc for these cars, either. IF someone makes one, make a few! I'm interested..

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

a little off track but I'm suprised in the seven years I've been on the fwd dodge sites I've seen no mention of anyone having a secret stash of the old pre 89 asbestos discs

those would be a god send to anyone with a stock or mildly modded motor

the organic starting in 89 was just garbage - mopar even had a shop notice for new 89's
"if it comes back in a few weeks with a bad clutch just replace it .. no cost"

a buddy had a new 89 shelby daytona .. the clutch lasted almost two weeks...

.. and parts house replacement organic clutch discs
ha haa ha ha haha

thankfully I still have 3 good asbestos discs left for doing repairs

[tryingbe]

Some newer Volvo uses dual mass flywheel, and this is what it comes with. (on the right). I used single mass flywheel and used the clutch on the left, reportedly good for around 350hp.

9-7/16 inch diameter disc. Stock is 238hp out of a T5 engine.

[4 l-bodies]

Thanks for all the replies so far guys. I just am getting tired of clutch combos that take so much of the fun out of driving. I hop in my close to bone stock CSX-T (intercooled) and realize just how ragged the other more aggressive combos have become. Of course this gets compounded by stiffer mounts, much louder exhaust, stiffer sprung & dampened suspension, etc. that happens when upgrading to HP parts.
Adam, I agree with you on sprung hubs being more of a hindrance than a help for an enthusiast driver. Being much lighter, It also is going to be more internal tranny friendly at high RPM shifts too. Clutchnet has at least in the past advertised a solid hub organic clutch. They also list a "fiber-carbon" (whatever that is?) button (8 puck) solid hub as an option too. I may need to give Igor a call to see what is currently available. I'll talk to you too Marc/Chris.
Way back in the day, my 85 GLHT (Spearco intercooled) OEM clutch lasted under 20K miles before it started slipping in 5th, then 4th, then 3rd... At the time, nowhere near 300 lbs/ft torque. This was with never bolting slicks on car, but having dot legal autocross rubber on at all times. Surprisingly, a dual friction disk/pp has survived almost 30K miles. I'm assuming clutch is right on the fringe of slipping but continues to hold. That log manifold car runs 109-111 MPH. Don't race it much anymore. I keep waiting for it to slip, but so far so good. I know it probably wouldn't hold bolting on the slicks.
My Centerforce DF drives like a stocker compared to all the 3, 4, & 6 puck, Rev-lock options I've tried. It seems like there should be some combo out there that I haven't tried yet that would meet my not that lofty expectations. Something that will survive with great driveability at around 300 lbs/ft torque. Another thought is my TU purple/black PP measures 236mm yet the largest disk option TU offers that I am aware of is 232mm. Seems like another 4mm diameter would definitely help, especially if using an organic full faced disk. That would be a full 8mm larger diameter than a standard 228mm disk.
Keep those cards and letters coming in (lol)...
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

Brochure from Clutchnet

[2.216VTurbo]

I think like you Todd I tried every modified clutch for the TM's ever made. McCloud Rev-Lok's(built by Red hisself!), Centerforce DF with swing weights, Clutch net sintered iron, ClutchMasters that I had to buy for cash from the Russian guys from a converted home/garage/shop in LA, Kevlar, carbon, organic, feramic, smeramic(OK,I made that one up ) heck even two PP's sandwiched together that would stress the clutch cable and your quads to the max! Nobody seemed to get it quite right, holding power versus driveabilty until the last few years. The current generation of TU clutches have pleased and surprised me, gone is the heavy pedal, the chatter that gets worse and worse in stop and go disc heating traffic, the ON/OFF switch nature of a high clamping force PP and all the other undesireables of a Hi-HP clutch. The new Purple (now black right?) is super easy to live with and holds all I've thrown at it. Just last weekend I resurected the Yellow 90 Masi TC out of the garage after a 3.5 year slumber, it has an older TU yellow clutch (mated to an OBX/523) and it harkens back to those earlier clutches that make noise and are less likeable than the current crop. If you haven't tried TU's offerings lately, you wont be disappointed if you do

[88C/S]

AJ's right about the TU Black pp. Engages like stock, but holds the power.

[iTurbo]

I was very pleased with the yellow plate/4-puck TU clutch that I installed in my old Spirit R/T. The guy that owns it now is also happy with it and it is making over 400 HP now with the T04E 50 trim hybrid.

[Vigo]

I think a moved-fulcrum plate with an un-sprung full face organic disc is pretty much the dream combo. Close to stock drivability (may exaggerate shaking if you lug the engine down or have loose mounts) and will probably hold 300+lb ft. I have driven one TU purple plate and i did like the pedal stiffness. On the other hand, i have a DD plate in the van and that doesnt bother me either, but it may have something to do with the upright seating position of the van making the stiff clutch a little easier to push.