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Thread: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

  1. #1
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    I want to start a discussion on getting a controller to operate the 41TE. There's been discussions about it in the past using the earlier factory controller. Rob (shelgame) is out of tuning. Una got it working briefly with Megashiftand the GPIO board but gave up. I think he boosted in 4th gear (a big no-no) and grenaded the trans. RacerSteve on Neons.org got it working on another trans controller but said it wouldn't be a viable option for the street, plus it was pricey compared to the MS options. It seems like the offerings from MegaSquirt are the only real possibilities. I've been doing some reading. Megashift and the GPIO board seems to be an outdated option as far as the 4TE is concerned. When I go to the build/set-up pages, a lot of links come up as "404 not found" and all the info Una had collected and posted isn't available. I reached out to him in a private message on YouTube but haven't heard back. MegaSquirt's Microsquirt which from what I've read is based on MS2 and has been developed as a trans controller for an almost a plug and play for the GM transmissions. Toyota and Ford transmissions can also be controlled with this. In the Microsquirt PDF manual http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Trans_Control-1.0.pdf it says, "The support for the 41TE is considered experimental. Further development is required before this is fully usable. This transmission uses a far more complex shift strategy than the other transmissions covered here and the solenoid timing is critical" but in the firmware the 41TE is supported so there's that. I have a 40TE trans out of a N/A Neon (I know not the best but for the $ it's worth experimenting on) I got next to nothing and I am willing to purchase Microsquirt https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...iring-harness/ for $369 on a gamble that it might not work and I'm throwing my money away. Summer time in AZ it's too hot to race or go to the car shows so that's the time I'm willing to lay my van up for big, time consuming upgrades (like I did for MS and my '95 Caravan radiator/condenser install). I'm already running MegaSquirt 3 w/MS3X v3.57 and can use the CAN network to tie it all together. If you're using another platform you'll have to run inputs for MAP, TPS, CTS, VSS and possibly other sensors to Microsquirt. My problem is I'm not real computer/tuner savvy. I'm a builder and fabricator primarily, I became a tuner out of necessity. I'm willing to put up my van and funds to try and make this happen. If it doesn't work I'm out $400ish (which I've blown and wasted more in building this van) and time and I just go back to the 31TH and have extra 31TH trans on hand for when my 360hp/460 ft/lbs of torque breaks them. I just want to throw this out there incase others are also interested in it (I know you are) to possibly start reading up on it so when I pull the pin and jump in and post my problems I have somebody with better understanding who can help walk me through this.
    <a href=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/thebest4/media/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg.html target=_blank rel=nofollow><a href=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps1ebchuzf.jpg</a></a>

  2. #2
    turbo addict
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    FWIW I asked Una about sharing his code a few years ago when I was thinking of running a 41TE in the van and his response was essentially "don't bother trying it isn't worth it". That tells me you'll end up coding from scratch probably.

  3. #3
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    I'm very interested in this as well!

  4. #4
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    I am also interested. I believe the mega shift can be made to work.

  5. #5
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor DOHCRT's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    I have a complete Microsquirt system that I was running in my Rhino a few years back. We could use that to prove things out. Price is right anyways...


    Vic in Phoenix
    dohcrt@cox.net

    91 Spirit R/T x3
    92 Spirit R/T x2
    89 CSX
    88 CSX-TIII
    84 Rampage TII
    97 Ram (Buzzin Half Dozen)
    69 Dart GT 'Vert

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Bugging DIY on facebook would be helpful. They released something about a Trans controller last year and i commented "too had it can't control a 41/42te etc. Some thought it could until a well knowing mind made correction.

    I have an a604 1990 Spirit now and an mspro
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 n/a.
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.9@106 10 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb
    1994 Spirit 3.0 A670 - Wife's
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.5 T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Parts
    1983 Starlet KP61 Parked
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed

  7. #7
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    I may be able to get involved with this, and I have some tools available to me that may be useful. I NEED to delve into the world of transmissions deeper, for my own knowledge. Anyway, my daily driver is a 2006 Dodge Stratus with a 41TE. I don't want to mod it, but it could be useful for pulling data. My work has a transmission dyno that I could use to test re-builds on transmissions before installing them in vehicles. I have full access to it, it has barely ever been used, and looks new. There would be a big learning curve for me on how to use it. My work has both a DRBIII and Chrysler StarScan that I can use whenever I need. We've got some 41TE transmissions laying around, condition unknown, most likely missing some parts. I could go through them. We have a 1996 Chrysler Cirrus 2.5 v6 41TE that I have whole control over what we do with. We were going to scrap it out, but if I want to keep it to experiment on, that would not be an issue. It cannot be driven on the road though. I saw a box full of wiring connectors laying around. It appeared to be some type of aftermarket transmission controller for use with transmissions on the Dyno. I saw a connector labeled 41TE. I did not investigate further, but will. Anyway, I've got access to some really cool/useful stuff, but where would I start as far as helping with this project?

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    My mom has a 2006 Grand Caravan with the 41TE. I have two lab scopes with a total of four channels I can hook up to the solenoids to see how and when they are pulse width modulated to get the shifts right.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOHCRT View Post
    I have a complete Microsquirt system that I was running in my Rhino a few years back. We could use that to prove things out. Price is right anyways...
    Vic is it this one? https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...stem-ecu-only/ It would be great if it is and I can borrow it and all I have to do was spend under $100 on a harness in case we can't get it to work.
    <a href=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/thebest4/media/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg.html target=_blank rel=nofollow><a href=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps1ebchuzf.jpg</a></a>

  9. #9
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    [QUOTE=A.J.;1121634]My mom has a 2006 Grand Caravan with the 41TE. I have two lab scopes with a total of four channels I can hook up to the solenoids to see how and when they are pulse width modulated to get the shifts right.


    I've got a 4 channel automotive PicoScope I can use too. USB to laptop, should be able to record with it.

  10. #10
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    We have one of these floating around somewhere at work:

    http://www.superflow.com/aspx/prodDe...id=10&navid=41

    I can't find the actual control unit, but I found the box of cables. There is a 41TE cable, so if this thing can control the 41TE, maybe it'd be helpful to mess with? I'm gonna keep looking for the unit itself.

  11. #11
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    I found the rest of the unit. I know this thread is about Megasquirt, and i'm not trying to hijack, but if what i have available is in any way helpful, let me know.

  12. #12
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Quote Originally Posted by RattFink View Post
    I found the rest of the unit. I know this thread is about Megasquirt, and i'm not trying to hijack, but if what i have available is in any way helpful, let me know.
    It's not necessarily about MegaSquirt, it's just they have the most viable controller and that's what I'll be using for this experiment. Since my van is already run on MegaSquirt, I can communicate via the CAN bus between the two controllers. Somebody using the factory Chrysler PCM or another manufacturer will have to run wires to the MAP, TPS, VSS and other sensors to the MicroSquirt/GPIO trans controller.

    Thanks for the offer. Once it's installed and ready to tune, that's when I'll be needing everybody's input.
    <a href=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/thebest4/media/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg.html target=_blank rel=nofollow><a href=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps1ebchuzf.jpg</a></a>

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Syke ecu seems able to tune the newer software for the 41te. He is moving out old hardware models that require annoying labor. Not sure how to persuade or how much capability there is. I used to have a screenshot
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 n/a.
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.9@106 10 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb
    1994 Spirit 3.0 A670 - Wife's
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.5 T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Parts
    1983 Starlet KP61 Parked
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed

  14. #14
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    megasquirt controlling the 41te is no better than the TCS box that racerstev was using because it doesnt have the adaptives to account for wear.

    the shift timing is critical.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  15. #15
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor DOHCRT's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Vic is it this one? https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...stem-ecu-only/ It would be great if it is and I can borrow it and all I have to do was spend under $100 on a harness in case we can't get it to work.[/QUOTE]

    Looks like they updated the unit. My case is different, but it is the DIYAutotune Microsquirt. YOu are welcome to check it out and see if it work for you.


    Vic in Phoenix
    dohcrt@cox.net

    91 Spirit R/T x3
    92 Spirit R/T x2
    89 CSX
    88 CSX-TIII
    84 Rampage TII
    97 Ram (Buzzin Half Dozen)
    69 Dart GT 'Vert

  16. #16
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Update. I'm moving forward finally. I wanted to start Monday but got busy with work that actually pays the bills. I got the firmware loaded onto Vic's borrowed Microsquirt V1. I got it communicating with my Macbook Air tuning computer that I use to tune Megasquirt with help from Tryingbe/Harry. I started the trans swap today. I got the 31TH out and the 40TE in, just a couple of bell housing bolts in. The 31TH trans mount will not bolt up to the 2004 40TE I'm using. It's too hot (115*) to dig through the junk yard to find a bolt in mount. The 31TH mount will work with some modifications. I'm swinging by Turbos Unleashed tomorrow to see if they have one kicking around. I don't want to modify mine if I have to go back to the 31TH. Two bolt holes will line up and the third needs modification.

    Attachment 61061
    <a href=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/thebest4/media/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg.html target=_blank rel=nofollow><a href=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps1ebchuzf.jpg</a></a>

  17. #17
    Garrett booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Any updates? I'm curious/interested.

  18. #18
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    The same problem has been untouched ever since Una had his van running with 604/Megashift. The available options don't auto-tune for wear. It is possible to make a megashift shift a 604 well for a time, but not possible to make it shift well forever without 'periodic' retuning or writing a whole lot of fancy code.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  19. #19
    Garrett booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    I'm a little skeptical about the need to account for wear since I've been thinking about it a little. How does any other hydraulic only transmission account for wear and shift timing? Band adjustments ala a413?

    The wear factor and need for timing adjustment is the only "major" hurdle I can see with the programming.

    No one has tried to work with the developers since Una did and his attitude is what turned off most since then, IMO.

    Ive seen there is support for other RFE clutch to clutch transmissions because there was more interest and people willing to work on them. Maybe some info from the other transmissions controls could be applied?

  20. #20
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Quote Originally Posted by guhfluh View Post
    Any updates? I'm curious/interested.
    I totally forgot to update this. Thanks for reminding me.

    I ran into a major road block. Chrysler uses a digital signal to tell the TCM what gear you have shifted into via the gear shifter (park, reverse, neutral, drive). There are four wires that are either open (no positive or negative voltage) or ground. For example when in park, wire 1 will be ground, wires 2, 3, 4 will be open. In reverse wire 1 will be open, wire 2 will be ground, wires 3 & 4 will be open. In neutral, wires 1 & 2 will be open, wire 3 will be ground and wire 4 will be open, etc. Well Tuner Studio, the tuning software for Mega Squirt, wants to see an analog signal (voltage). So I bought a potentiometer and set Tuner Studio for park to be 1 volt, reverse to be 1.5 volts, neutral to be 2 volts, etc. I turned the potentiometer to get the desired voltage and Tuner Studio did indicate it recognized the voltage and indicated it was in that selected gear but reverse never was indicated and the voltages it was seeing was off. For example I selected drive which was 2.5 volts, it might indicate it was in drive at 3.7 volts. So with AZ being so hot and my experimenting having to take place in my 110* shop, it's on hold until it cools off, which it's doing. The range selector problem can be worked out (if possible on the bench) so if and when I can over come this hurtle will dictate this moving forward or not.
    <a href=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/thebest4/media/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg.html target=_blank rel=nofollow><a href=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/SRT-4/IMG_3442_zps1ebchuzf.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps1ebchuzf.jpg</a></a>

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