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Thread: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

  1. #161
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    i think someone would have to show up at that shop (Baumann) with a working vehicle and get in contact with the geeks that work physically on the stuff and get them excited.

    or someone is going to have to have a working vehicle for testing (low powered, 41te/604 so it doesnt kill itself while the bugs are worked out) and hit up the megasquirt guys again. they started working on it once. they might again.

    or someone is going to have to hook up a multi channel recording scope to the trans electronics on a stock car and also hook up pressure sensors on all the pressure ports and speed sensors and stuff and datalog everything and see whats its doing and then hit up the mpscilink guys to make a new box.

    or get enough folks together to reverse engineer the stock controller.

    there are options. but they all involve work and time and involvement.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  2. #162
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    One of the strange quirks of the A604/40,41TE is the lack of any kind of load sense for the line pressure. Chrysler's solution on the later ones installed on some of the turbocharged 4s is a "torque reduction request" signal that is sent to the PCM, or if the vehicle has the NGC computer it is internal to it. I don't know whether it pulls timing (which I would expect) or selectively cuts injectors during shifts. This is the only transmission I have seen other than the Detroit Gear Automatic Drives that Studebaker, Hudson and Jaguar used that has no provision for load activated pressure control. Most use the throttle or vacuum modulator signal to apply pressure to the regulator to increase the line pressure under load to prevent slip. Mast of the computer controlled units use a duty cycle solenoid valve to raise/lower pressure and some will actually boost pressure during an upshift or downshift. Honda had a very unique, and typically Honda approach, the stator support is not hard mounted to the case, but is free to rotate, the inner end is a lever that reacts against the pressure regulator spring, more reactive torque = more pressure, so simple it isn't funny.

    I have a late model one I plan on playing with for my car at a later date and have been trying to see if there is an easy way to add line pressure control to the hydraulics, even an externally mounted vacuum modulator system that would really raise pressure under boost conditions.
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
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  3. #163
    Garrett booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Quote Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
    I have a late model one I plan on playing with for my car at a later date and have been trying to see if there is an easy way to add line pressure control to the hydraulics, even an externally mounted vacuum modulator system that would really raise pressure under boost conditions.
    Look at the 40/41TES. From what I saw, it's the same Trans with added line pressure control.

  4. #164
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Ok, my 41TE FSM is dated 1996, so there might be something newer. The transmission came from a 2000 Stratus 2.4L NA car.
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  5. #165
    turbo addict
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt


  6. #166
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Ok, then it does not apply to the one I have. It is from a 2000 Stratus.
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  7. #167
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    This is the only transmission I have seen other than the Detroit Gear Automatic Drives that Studebaker, Hudson and Jaguar used that has no provision for load activated pressure control.
    When you can PWM all engagement and shifting actions, why bother with the line pressure?

    My old 06 Magnum had VLP on the 42rle. It didn't seem well implemented as it shifted a bit worse than most of previous '604 et al' cars.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  8. #168
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Interesting, because the RWD transmissions still retained a throttle valve for a very long time, even the Cummins Diesel had one with the computer controlled injection systems. The accelerator pedal position sensor was mounted where the injection pump used to be and there was still a cable from there down to the transmission.
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  9. #169
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Well, that trans was still the same basic old-school trans that had been 'electrified' but never reached the extent that the 604 had been from day one. The truck trans was the old torqueflite 3 spd with a 4th gear added in the tailhousing section in ~1988. The 4th gear was always electrically actuated but the 1-3 gears were still run by a governor/throttle valve arrangement up until 1995 ish. Then they replaced the governor with a pressure sensor and a solenoid to electrically control the same basic circuit that used to be controlled by a mechanical governor. Still had a throttle valve (which was eventually run by an electric motor on the diesels) but you could say that 1-4 were now 'electrically controlled'. But not to the extent that there were separate solenoids that could PWM the engagement time/harshness of every gear. The only solenoids on the trans controlled the engagement of 4th gear, and the TCC clutch.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  10. #170
    Garrett booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Yeah, not until the 68RFE in the diesel was it anywhere similar to the 41TE/604. 45RFE and 545RFE were more closely related.

  11. #171
    turbo addict
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    The RFE's are a little bit different than the ultradrives but yeah, fully electronic. The 42rle is basically a RWD a606(which was in LH cars).

  12. #172
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    https://www.usshift.com/

    They do clutch to clutch on their latest Ford product, includes self learning. Always looking for new projects but of course our need is small.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 n/a.
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.5 T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed

  13. #173
    Garrett booster
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    That's pretty cool. I thought about swapping 41TE long time ago. It just doesn't make sense for me to start over. I would have to develop parts all over again. If there was a big following then that would be a different story.

  14. #174
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt

    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    That's pretty cool. I thought about swapping 41TE long time ago. It just doesn't make sense for me to start over. I would have to develop parts all over again. If there was a big following then that would be a different story.
    Been trying to get a "following" for 20 years! LOL Can't get a controller...which is needed first.

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