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Thread: T1 PCV valve function

  1. #21
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    My car burn oil even with two 5/8 hose venting to atmosphere from the valve cover. After trying a LOT of things, the only way to stop it from smoking is that I paid AZ AJ to install a PCV system where it would provide vacuum inside the crank case while the car is not in boost. Yes, he hooked up a vacuum gauge to the oil dip stick tube and measured 5-9 inches of vacuum. Then, my car magically stop burning oil.

    For the other valve cover port, there is currently a check valve that opens when crank case pressure gets over certain amount of pressure. That valve will be replace with a 5/8 in solenoid that opens when my intake manifold is above 0psi.

  2. #22
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty shadow View Post
    i agree with this, with everything you say you've done it could be excessive blow-by getting past the rings and pressurizing the crank case and forcing oil past the pcv valve.
    disconnect the pcv valve from the intake, plug the vacuum line and run a hose from the pcv valve over to a temporary catch can like a soda bottle (make sure to have a vent hole in the top of the bottle or the cap ) and drive the car. if you're still getting lots of smoke or see oil in the catch can after a drive then its rings or valve seals. no smoke and little to no oil in the catch can and its the pcv system not working correctly.
    I like this temporary catch can idea, will try it this afternoon.

    I do agree with the consensus that it *sounds like* guides/seals it's just that this shop has done dozens of heads for me in the last 20+ years and although they left Grit in a TIII oil passage once(not technically their fault, previously there was no 'fix' for that) the new parts they have installed have always worked as they are supposed to. Again, all guides are new and the seals as well.

    One thing I neglected to mention is that there is ZERO 'huff' out of the oil fill in the VC when the cap is removed and motor is running. Every ring challenged or excessive blowby motor I've done this check on would push a lot of air out. A couple even would spray oil droppletts out onto my hand.

    Tryingbe I do like the idea of another vent on the VC, I just can't get past the way a TBI cover would look on this motor, as anyone who saw it at SDAC can attest to, this is definatly a hood up show car If adding another vent is gonna be the cure I'll do something custom to the VC that's on there.

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
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  3. #23
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor supercrackerbox's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    I've got a dual catch can system on my Charger, but not enough miles on it to determine its effectiveness. The single can system I had always had a small amount of oil (checked roughly every thousand miles) so it seemed to work. The second one is now in the stream that used to just be a dump tube off the lower leg of the PCV tee.

  4. #24
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Different scenario, but maybe something to look into.
    I had a similar issue with oil getting into the intake on the DC intercooled GLH. The problem wound up being that the turbo didn't have a carbon seal and oil was being sucked past the seal during vacuum.
    I know RB is a blow through, but maybe the turbo seal is leaking.

  5. #25
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Quote Originally Posted by ajakeski View Post
    Different scenario, but maybe something to look into.
    I had a similar issue with oil getting into the intake on the DC intercooled GLH. The problem wound up being that the turbo didn't have a carbon seal and oil was being sucked past the seal during vacuum.
    I know RB is a blow through, but maybe the turbo seal is leaking.

    Super, I have that second leg of the T going to a barb fitting a couple inches in front of the compressor wheel so it has vacuum all the time. I thought it might need this if I pinched off the intake manifold vacuum source to the PCV valve(which I've tried intemittantly to solve the smoking problem, hasn't worked) to maintain some suction going to the valve cover.

    You're the second person that mentioned bad turbo seal that only rears it's ugly head during heavy vacuum. I hard time thinking of the turbo(or seals) even being exposed to relative high vacuum because of it's position in the exhaust stream? I was thinking how can vacuum even get to the turbo?? Vacuum is an intake condition, right? I don't want to pull the turbo (it's new, just has SDAC miles and the trip to cali miles, doesn't mean it's not the problem I suppose) and I was pretty sure a bad turbo seal would smoke under boost but if that wasn't your experience I could stand to be schooled here

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
    89 TC Masi 16V Red/Ginger/Black
    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
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  6. #26
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Mine smoked during and after boost. No smoke after changing the seals, but like I said that one is a suck through.
    I'm out of darts to throw at the solution board...

  7. #27
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    my reliant used to smoke like crazy.

    mine was high oil pressure and not that good of an oil drainback from the turbo (non turbo block) and it would ooze oil out the exhaust side overflow hole and into the exhaust and smoke like mad.

    i drilled the block and installed a 3/4" tube and used a 3/4" hose. no more smoke.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  8. #28
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    my reliant used to smoke like crazy.

    mine was high oil pressure and not that good of an oil drainback from the turbo (non turbo block) and it would ooze oil out the exhaust side overflow hole and into the exhaust and smoke like mad.

    i drilled the block and installed a 3/4" tube and used a 3/4" hose. no more smoke.

    Brian
    Thanks for the reply and the idea Brian

    Just in case it was a drainback back up of oil issue into the turbo I did two things. First I reconfigured the drainback so it had a steeper angle to the block tube. Second thing is the TU oil feed line has a .135 diameter feed to the turbo. I spent an hour making a brass plug to put in the line that reduces the feed hole to .070 or about half the stock size. Didn't help a bit

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
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    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
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  9. #29
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Thanks for the reply and the idea Brian

    Just in case it was a drainback back up of oil issue into the turbo I did two things. First I reconfigured the drainback so it had a steeper angle to the block tube. Second thing is the TU oil feed line has a .135 diameter feed to the turbo. I spent an hour making a brass plug to put in the line that reduces the feed hole to .070 or about half the stock size. Didn't help a bit
    no prob.

    yeah with all the #1 cyl nonsense i didnt think it was the drainback but i figured id throw it out there anyway.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #30
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Are you using zero gap rings? Childs & Albert's zero gap?

    I think it is a bit unusual that only your #1 is showing signs of the oil burning. If it were from the pvc, i would think it would show up in more than just #1.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
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  11. #31
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    oil from only number one would have me thinking something's wrong at the head gasket

  12. #32
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    I didn"t build the motor, I bought it low mileage used from an experienced builder in this community, I doubt however that he uses zero gap.

    Look at a TII intake manifold, see how the vacuum source is directly above the #1 intake runner? When I pulled the old head, the #1 was puddled with oil.

    Dr Johnny, the HG (and the head actually)is brand new, like 150 miles but its smoked the whole time just like the old head did which kinda leads to the conclusion that the problem is elsewhere. Maybe the 2000 mile turbo like some folks in this thread had suggested. Im just hoping for some magic insight that makes it a simple fix I suppose

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
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    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
    My profile page has over 20,000 views, I'm somebody LOL

  13. #33
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    if you're only getting oil in one cylinder then it has to be something related to that cylinder (I haven't confused this with someone else's issue have I ?)

    head gasket , no , piston / ring issue maybe

    if it were the turbo you would have oil everywhere if the leak was at the compressor side

  14. #34
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    I thought I had more pics in this thread, I guess not. My bad. I am a firm believer in a pic being worth a thousand words...

    To recap, on the trip from SDAC 26 to Cali it used a quart of oil per tank of fuel. Upon teardown I found oil in the intake manifold #1 runner(like a puddle) and the #1 exhaust runner on the TU header was COATED with burnt oil. I used a scroll cartridge to 'port/polish' the coke outta there it was so thick.

    Thinking the newly built head (all new guides, valves, springs, seals) would solve the smoking issue I was bummed to see it still smoked. So 15 minutes after getting it running again my Bro found the huge vacuum leak from the intake manifold nipple to PCV valve. After that changing the PCV valve 3 times(including running the all metal Supra Turbo PCV valve now) I've tried restricting the vacuum source, closing it off completely, restricting the oil feed to turbo source, reconfiguring the oil drainback from the turbo, pulling the valve cover and resealing the baffle etc etc. All these 'fixes' with no real improvement. The #1 plug is the only oily spark plug now after 150-200 miles with new head. I haven't pulled the turbo or the head again and don't want to if I can find some other fix.

    Could it be a piston/ring? I suppose, but the piston tops and the bores were PERFECT when I had the head off. For sure hindsight being 20/20 I wish I had taken the time to pull them out and inspect the rings but this was a sub 3000K mile motor and I just didn't think there was a problem there. Also the motor DOESN"T huff at all out of the oil cap when running so its not a top or second ring for sure. Oil rings? I guess but why is the problem intermittent/ related to high vacuum?

    There's something I'm missing
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
    89 TC Masi 16V Red/Ginger/Black
    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
    My profile page has over 20,000 views, I'm somebody LOL

  15. #35
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    My car burn oil even with two 5/8 hose venting to atmosphere from the valve cover. After trying a LOT of things, the only way to stop it from smoking is that I paid AZ AJ to install a PCV system where it would provide vacuum inside the crank case while the car is not in boost. Yes, he hooked up a vacuum gauge to the oil dip stick tube and measured 5-9 inches of vacuum. Then, my car magically stop burning oil.

    For the other valve cover port, there is currently a check valve that opens when crank case pressure gets over certain amount of pressure. That valve will be replace with a 5/8 in solenoid that opens when my intake manifold is above 0psi.
    That would seem to point to the rings not sealing properly, or installed incorrectly, or the oil scapers not working right.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  16. #36
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    I thought I had more pics in this thread, I guess not. My bad. I am a firm believer in a pic being worth a thousand words...

    To recap, on the trip from SDAC 26 to Cali it used a quart of oil per tank of fuel. Upon teardown I found oil in the intake manifold #1 runner(like a puddle) and the #1 exhaust runner on the TU header was COATED with burnt oil. I used a scroll cartridge to 'port/polish' the coke outta there it was so thick.

    Thinking the newly built head (all new guides, valves, springs, seals) would solve the smoking issue I was bummed to see it still smoked. So 15 minutes after getting it running again my Bro found the huge vacuum leak from the intake manifold nipple to PCV valve. After that changing the PCV valve 3 times(including running the all metal Supra Turbo PCV valve now) I've tried restricting the vacuum source, closing it off completely, restricting the oil feed to turbo source, reconfiguring the oil drainback from the turbo, pulling the valve cover and resealing the baffle etc etc. All these 'fixes' with no real improvement. The #1 plug is the only oily spark plug now after 150-200 miles with new head. I haven't pulled the turbo or the head again and don't want to if I can find some other fix.

    Could it be a piston/ring? I suppose, but the piston tops and the bores were PERFECT when I had the head off. For sure hindsight being 20/20 I wish I had taken the time to pull them out and inspect the rings but this was a sub 3000K mile motor and I just didn't think there was a problem there. Also the motor DOESN"T huff at all out of the oil cap when running so its not a top or second ring for sure. Oil rings? I guess but why is the problem intermittent/ related to high vacuum?

    There's something I'm missing
    Again, seems to point to the ring package in some way. The reason it's always in #1 cyl is because that's where the vacuum for the PCV valve is pulled from. If there is excessive pressure in the crankcase, the only place for it to escape is through the PCV valve elbow. So it'll show up in the air intake pipe, and #1 cyl.

    So, if it's been #1 cyl on two separate heads, either there's too much combustion gases escaping into the crank case past all the rings into the crankcase (due to improper gapping, orientation, etc), or there's an issue with the #1 ring pack that's letting oil past the rings into the combustion chamber. Is there oil in the #1 intake port also, or just in the exhaust?
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  17. #37
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    If your oil ring was installed upside-down on #1, wouldn't it be more likely to draw oil into the cylinder under high vacuum especially?
    But, if your pcv goes directly above the #1 runner, then it still could just be oil getting sucked in from the valvecover? (Are you using the cam caps with the oil squirters for the flat followers?) If you have high vacuum and alot of oil splashing around the head it would be more likely to get drawn up the pcv baffles? (However you did say you sealed all the baffles to the valvecover, so that shouldn't be it.) And that little drainback port on the pvc baffle isn't sealed, right?

    So its been mentioned a few times to do s compression test. Any results?
    A leakdown test might provide some other good info. At least you would know the condition of your rings.

    Also, if you suspect it is still pcv, why not vent the valvecover (as also previously suggested) open to atmosphere, through a container to catch any oil, and plug the pvc port at the intake? If it still burns oil its coming from elsewhere.

    And, if the turbo oil seal is suspected bad on the compressor side, oil would be accumulating in the compressor discharge pipe and intercooler.

    You've got some significant time wrapped up in trying to resolve this with the new head and other tests, so i'm sure this is frustrating. It will get figured out. Those tests above should help narrow things down.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
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  18. #38
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    if the oil is showing up in #1's exhaust port I'd suspect the oil control ring at #1 is fubar somehow
    Even if you get good compression test results as the two top rings are probably sealing fine - just there's probably too much oil left behind by the bottom ring for them to scrap off

  19. #39
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post

    Also, if you suspect it is still pcv, why not vent the valvecover (as also previously suggested) open to atmosphere, through a container to catch any oil, and plug the pvc port at the intake? If it still burns oil its coming from elsewhere.
    Came here to say this, see wayne beat me to it.

  20. #40
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: T1 PCV valve function

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    Came here to say this, see wayne beat me to it.
    Yay me! I said something useful!
    And as it turns out i was just backing someone else up.

    Let us have the next puzzle piece AJ...
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
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