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Thread: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

  1. #1
    Mitsu booster
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    New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    hello all! I used to cruise around this forum a few years back while working on my barn find horizon with a carb problem. ive sorted it all mostly and have put nearly 10k on it as a daily. now at 130k, the trans will not go in gear. the clutch does nothing. the clutch cable and the lever on the trans both still have tension but doesn't dissengage the clutch. so im assuming an internal problem. regardless of the real problem the clutch will be getting an upgrade.

    my question to you veterans out there, how easy Is the trans to remove by itself? im limited to a fairly small garage and I do not have a hoist.

    2nd question. regardless what condition the clutch set is in, I will be upgrading it. but how far do I go? this car is my daily so nothing too aggressive, its also non turbo and will remain so. might do a little head work down the road. I have a hitch on the car and use it to tow a small 4x8 ft. trailer.

    TLRD, what does a clutch swap/upgrade like this require, whats a brand preference? and the biggest question... what a im looking for is a clutch strong to tow my little trailer with a couple hundred pounds (not that ill be using it regularly) and one that is good for a daily with maybe sayyyy 150-ish HP max down the road if that ever comes

    thanks for any help everyone!
    Last edited by horizon_87_withneons; 02-08-2017 at 09:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon_87_withneons View Post
    hello all! I used to cruise around this forum a few years back while working on my barn find horizon with a carb problem. ive sorted it all mostly and have put nearly 10k on it as a daily. now at 130k, the trans will not go in gear. the clutch does nothing. the clutch cable and the lever on the trans both still have tension but doesn't dissengage the clutch. so im assuming an internal problem. regardless of the real problem the clutch will be getting an upgrade.

    my question to you veterans out there, how easy Is the trans to remove by itself? im limited to a fairly small garage and I do not have a hoist.

    2nd question. regardless what condition the clutch set is in, I will be upgrading it. but how far do I go? this car is my daily so nothing too aggressive, its also non turbo and will remain so. might do a little head work down the road. I have a hitch on the car and use it to tow a small 4x8 ft. trailer.

    TLRD, what does a clutch swap/upgrade like this require, whats a brand preference? and the biggest question... what a im looking for is a clutch strong to tow my little trailer with a couple hundred pounds (not that ill be using it regularly) and one that is good for a daily with maybe sayyyy 150-ish HP max down the road if that ever comes

    thanks for any help everyone!
    If you plan on staying N/A, you can upgrade the flywheel and clutch to stock turbo spec stuff and it will probably last forever.
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
    Project Log:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  3. #3
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    would you have a recommended brand for said replacement? does it sound like a clutch issue?

    also looking for CV axle recommendations.

  4. #4
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon_87_withneons View Post
    would you have a recommended brand for said replacement? does it sound like a clutch issue?

    also looking for CV axle recommendations.
    For a good stock replacement, stick with Sachs or Luk. They are good brand names. Assuming your Horizon is an 87 from your screen name, you are just a flywheel & clutch pack away from upgrading it to a turbo spec flywheel. New flywheels are readily available from several sources.

    As far as axles, I'd stick with new replacements. The rebuilt stuff is a sketchy at best. Some guys have decent luck, some don't.

    Being it's a 5-speed, yours will have the small spline axles. Where are you at in Northern Indiana? I have a brand new pair of axles you can have if your willing to pick them up... My Scamp is getting upgraded to a 2.5 turbo motor & A-520 transaxle this winter, so I have no need for small spline axles anymore...

  5. #5

    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon_87_withneons View Post
    hello all! I used to cruise around this forum a few years back while working on my barn find horizon with a carb problem. ive sorted it all mostly and have put nearly 10k on it as a daily. now at 130k, the trans will not go in gear. the clutch does nothing. the clutch cable and the lever on the trans both still have tension but doesn't dissengage the clutch. so im assuming an internal problem. regardless of the real problem the clutch will be getting an upgrade.
    Sounds like the clutch disk is falling apart and a piece is lodged between the disk and pressure plate or flywheel.

    On removing the trans, you will need to support the engine while the trans is out. That can be with a commercial support jig (Harbor Freight has them) or a 2x4 and a bottle jack. Then you need the means to raise and lower the trans. I prefer an engine hoist and aircraft cable to form a sling. Just trying to bench press it in place seems overly difficult unless you are really strong and lucky (it can take some work to get the trans by the engine.) With the sling, I can use the hoist to raise it close and then press it the last little bit and slide the trans shaft into the clutch disk... That can be taxing enough...

    So where in Northern Indiana are you? I am a little outside of Kokomo.

  6. #6
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    You would probably be okay with the Stage 1 T2/T3 hybrid clutch.

    All of our clutch options are listed here:

    http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/perf...35_97_163.html

    Chris-TU
    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  7. #7
    turbo addict
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Since you said it doesn't disengage, the first thing I would check is to make sure there isn't anything obviously bent/bending when depressing the pedal. Try pulling up on the clutch pedal which allows the adjuster to take out any slack in the cable.

    The standard turbo clutch kits from Sachs or LUK are good pieces, especially for a TBI engine. Those will take anything & everything you throw at them. Keep in mind that a turbo flywheel is required as the bolt spacing for the pressure plate is different.
    “If the people of the nation understood our banking and monetary system, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford

  8. #8
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    firstly... cant believe I failed to mention it... yes its an 87.

    1987 Horizon, manual everything, no a/c, 2.2 non-turbo

    the deteriorating clutch is no surprise. hot and cold extremes sittng in mud for 10 years in a barn now its a daily... go figure lol. glad to see "luk" as an option cause rockauto lists it. whats the difference from the "luk" on rockauto and the turbo spec setup im reading everywhere about?

    for those wandering, im in New Haven, outskirts of fort wayne.

    Last edited by horizon_87_withneons; 02-08-2017 at 04:03 PM.

  9. #9
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon_87_withneons View Post
    for those wandering, im in New Haven, outskirts of fort wayne.

    Then we are practically neighbors... Nice to see another TM guy in Northern Indiana...

    Like I said before, the axle offer stands, if you are willing to pick them up.

  10. #10
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    I noticed!! and I will definitely take you up on that. mine are original I believe.

  11. #11
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    when searching for a turbo clutch what should I look for? I don't have a turbo option when looking up my car. whats a good cross reference?

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon_87_withneons View Post
    when searching for a turbo clutch what should I look for? I don't have a turbo option when looking up my car. whats a good cross reference?
    Look up a clutch and flywheel for a 1987 Dodge Charger 2.2 turbo.
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
    Project Log:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  13. #13
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by contraption22 View Post
    Look up a clutch and flywheel for a 1987 Dodge Charger 2.2 turbo.
    ^^^^^ this.... thank you.. haha any other preventative maintenance while im in there?

    already have the SS shift linkage set done. then CV axles, lower balljoints, flywheel, clutch set on the agenda

  14. #14
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 86Shelby View Post
    The standard turbo clutch kits from Sachs or LUK are good pieces, especially for a TBI engine. Those will take anything & everything you throw at them. Keep in mind that a turbo flywheel is required as the bolt spacing for the pressure plate is different.
    not tbi. ive converted it to a weber carb. everything Is setup oldschool, no computer, no smog stuff. don't imagine it would change anything though right?

  15. #15
    turbo addict
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon_87_withneons View Post
    not tbi. ive converted it to a weber carb. everything Is setup oldschool, no computer, no smog stuff. don't imagine it would change anything though right?
    That's cool with the weber carb! I had simply assumed TBI. No it wouldn't change anything.

    There are two big differences between a turbo clutch and a carb/TBI clutch. The diameter is larger (9" vs 8.5") and the pressure plate has a bit more pressure behind it IIRC.
    “If the people of the nation understood our banking and monetary system, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford

  16. #16
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Are you saying the clutch will not disengage after sitting a long time??

    I have seen several cases where the clutch disc "rusts" in place preventing disengagement.

    Very often starting the Engine with the trans in gear and the clutch pedal depressed will "break" the disc free.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
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  17. #17
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    As far as removing the trans, I actually built a small cradle that replaces the pad on my floor jack. I position it under the trans, strap it down with a cinch strap, and drop it out the bottom. Works well. I did have a picture of it, I'll have to look and see if I still do...

  18. #18
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    i may have to inquire of your help there scamp. with us being a hop skip and jump from each other, i could greatly benefit from a knowledgable mentor close by

    anyway, now that im on a computer that doesnt suck, ill fill in a bit more info.

    ive been dailying this car for almost a year now, just ran through my 3rd oil change i believe it was, regular use, couple quick take offs here and there, you k,now racecar stuff. mix of city and highway, 75% time just me in car. we practically tossed the carb on. tedious getting to that point but once it was on, little tuning and it drives great, no vibrations, no odd shifts, if i shift too quick occasionally it would grind but i think the clutch is well indeed on its way out if its not what caused my current issue.

    now heres how it happened. i was leaving the store the other day. moderate temp outside, car was already warm, driving along down the isle (im in 2nd), slowed for a crosswalk in front of the store, pushed in the clutch and came to a stop. put it in first, slowly release the clutch as usual and all it did was rev. no movement. i think, "ok it popped out of gear" not the first time. so i pushed the clutch back in and tried 1st again. when i did it started grinding like the clutch wasnt pushed, mind you my foot is to the floor. so im pretty confused. first thing i check is clutch cable, its tight, no slack, then i check the arm on the trans, also tight. so i start it back up and i guess the only good news is that theres no noise. like theres no rattles or signs of catastrophic failure... so thats where im at right now with it.

  19. #19
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    I believe I will be attempting the removal process tonight.. any words from the wise?

    would it be easier to do the bushings in my steering rack while the trans is out?

  20. #20
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: New to FWD and Mopar.. My Horizon needs a clutch!

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon_87_withneons View Post
    I believe I will be attempting the removal process tonight.. any words from the wise?

    would it be easier to do the bushings in my steering rack while the trans is out?
    In an L-body, if you contemplate doing anything with the steering rack, just drop the K-frame. You can drive out the retaining pin holding the steering shaft to the coupling and drop the entire thing out as an assembly. That will also make trans install & removal much easier. The diff tends to get hung up on the front lower control arm mount on the K-frame. I know it sounds like a lot more work, but it really isn't especially if you need to work on the rack anyways.

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