How to install 87 forged 2.2 crank in 90 common block?

[Gaboon]

Okay I want to build a new block and want to use my rotating assembly which is a 2.2 forged crank originally from a 87 Shelby Daytona TII
along with my good rods and would like to use a common block.

The problem is that the crank end seals/caps on a common block are different diameters than the earlier blocks from which my crank is out of.
So the question is, how do I get my prepped forged crank into a common block and be able to seal the crankshaft ends?

Thanks.

[GLHS60]

If you can find a common block that is flat on the front seal face it would be easy to redrill for the early front seal retainer.

My Engine is this way but they are scarce.

Thanks
Randy

[Gaboon]

If you can find a common block that is flat on the front seal face it would be easy to redrill for the early front seal retainer.

My Engine is this way but they are scarce.

Thanks
Randy

Any idea of the years and cars they came out of?

Thanks

[135sohc]

If by 'flat' you mean where the block has not been milled down to clearance the sprocket on the crankshaft for the balance shaft drive chain ?

[Reaper1]

You can also have the crank turned down to accept the CB front seal IIRC.

[GLHS60]

Any idea of the years and cars they came out of?

Thanks

The only ones that I know for sure are warranty replacements from Chrysler.

Cast in 1990 or later with or with out fuel pump hole, for earlier applications.

As mentioned, the relief in the front block face for balance the shaft sprocket is the issue.

Possibly some non balance shaft blocks as well, they're scarce but out there.

I thought someone in the past ran into issues turning the snout but don't remember the details.

Someone JB welded the relief but I also don't remember if it held up, seemed dicey at best.

Recently someone posted they did the opposite, CB crank in a non CB, by making 1 seal retainer out of 2.

Cant see that working going non CB crank in a CB.

However if anyone can figure out a way, it will be Joey!!

Keep us posted please.

Thanks
Randy

[GLHS60]

ShellGame has a nice block article but none show the block face.

It would be nice to compile some more block pics.

Warren posted this pic of what is often the weak spot with C.B.'s in his search for the best block.

Pre C.B.'s don't seem to have this casting issue.

Thanks
Randy

[Gaboon]

You can also have the crank turned down to accept the CB front seal IIRC.

Now there's an idea. I couldn't remember if the CB end was larger or smaller than the early blocks.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

The only ones that I know for sure are warranty replacements from Chrysler.

Cast in 1990 or later with or with out fuel pump hole, for earlier applications.

As mentioned, the relief in the front block face for balance the shaft sprocket is the issue.

Possibly some non balance shaft blocks as well, they're scarce but out there.

I thought someone in the past ran into issues turning the snout but don't remember the details.

Someone JB welded the relief but I also don't remember if it held up, seemed dicey at best.

Recently someone posted they did the opposite, CB crank in a non CB, by making 1 seal retainer out of 2.

Cant see that working going non CB crank in a CB.

However if anyone can figure out a way, it will be Joey!!

Keep us posted please.

Thanks
Randy

I'll figure this out. I just want to build one killer strong block and be done for a while.

[Warren Stramer]

ShellGame has a nice block article but none show the block face.

It would be nice to compile some more block pics.

Warren posted this pic of what is often the weak spot with C.B.'s in his search for the best block.

Pre C.B.'s don't seem to have this casting issue.

Thanks
Randy

Nope, the early (up to 89) NON common blocks have the deep casting seam. Common blocks do not.

[4 l-bodies]

Well the reply with quote isn't working for me again.
Joey, contact AJ (used to be Alan) if you want the real scoop on converting a early crank to CB use. AJ only did this because he was doing this to a 2.0 ltr. crank. He could have bought like 5 steel cranks for what he has invested in this one.
Many problems. For starters the snout is approx. .100 too small on the early crank. Then the snout is also around 3/8" too short. Then you have to re-drill for the larger crank bolt. You will have far more $ invested in welding, machining, than just buying a proper CB steel crank. As Randy mentioned there are service blocks out there that look like early blocks but have all the CB webbing in them. I have one sitting in my garage at the moment. I believe Gary D. has one too. So they're out there. They all have casting dates around 92-94.
Todd

[moparman76_69]

The warranty block is essentially a non CB block though isn't it? Or do they use common block oil pan?

[GLHS60]

The few I've seen are common block.

The one in my car has a 1990 date and no fuel pump hole.

Dean Stillie mentioned he saw some with the fuel pump hole when he was a Chrysler tech.

Todd might take some pics if asked nicely!!

Thanks
Randy

The warranty block is essentially a non CB block though isn't it? Or do they use common block oil pan?

[GLHS60]

Todd, I remember someone redrilling a flat faced common block to take the early seal retainer.

Could it have been a 2.5 Dakota block ??

A pre C.B. replacement block would already have the correct front seal retainer bolt holes.

Old age creeping in on my memory.

Thanks
Randy

[4 l-bodies]

Still a no go for me with replying with quote. My service block looks exactly like an early block but with all the webbing improvements of the common block. Different casting #. Has fuel pump cutout, straight oil pan rail and all early block accessories bolt right on. My block came with HD rods and steel crank with a cast piston (not Mahles) but with some made in Mexico markings on them. Mine is still std. bore. Mine was originally purchased as an upgrade block after 86 GLHT block failed in Nic Kuehn's GLHT. That is the nice GLHT that J. Buhr now owns. I believe Nic paid around $500 out of pocket for the upgraded shortblock. I still have the invoice for it somewhere in my records. I have no idea how Nic even knew to inquire about these upgraded blocks.
Also have a photo of another weird block at this link. That one is finally up and running after many years of hibernation.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...service+blocks
Look at post 12 for a couple photos of early block and post 21 for photo of really rare block.
Todd

[moparman76_69]

Yeah I have a 4501851-9 block. It is indistinguishable from a early block until you see the part number and 89 casting date and uses all the early block parts.

[2.216VTurbo]

Well the reply with quote isn't working for me again.
Joey, contact AJ (used to be Alan) if you want the real scoop on converting a early crank to CB use. AJ only did this because he was doing this to a 2.0 ltr. crank. He could have bought like 5 steel cranks for what he has invested in this one.
Many problems. For starters the snout is approx. .100 too small on the early crank. Then the snout is also around 3/8" too short. Then you have to re-drill for the larger crank bolt. You will have far more $ invested in welding, machining, than just buying a proper CB steel crank. As Randy mentioned there are service blocks out there that look like early blocks but have all the CB webbing in them. I have one sitting in my garage at the moment. I believe Gary D. has one too. So they're out there. They all have casting dates around 92-94.
Todd

Well, since the 2l motor that the early Non CB IMSA crank was built hasn't actually run yet, I can't really say that the conversion worked But yeah and early non CB crank can be turned down to 'fit' the CB. One issue my builder an into that it now had to bed rebroached for the woodruff key way. He didn't have the correct size broach and had to order one. It took like 2 months to have it built. Since he was likely only gonna use it once our deal was that I would have to cover half the cost and he would keep the broach. The other issue as mentioned is the seal offset. Just some preliminary measurements and I'm pretty sure with some cutting and welding between two seal retainers, one working retainer with the correct offset can be created. That's my plan anyway. Like Todd said, not a very cost effective way to select a crank. I'm into it about $1500. including the purchase price. With as many projects I have backed up, it's a 'someday' motor at this point

[GLHS60]

I just realized my previous posts may have sounded like my warranty block takes common block oil pan but you are correct that it takes non common block oil pan and seal retainers etc to accommodate the early non common block crank.

That's basically the point of the original post, its very difficult to use a non CB crank in a CB.

The replacement blocks that I have seen are common block in structure with beefier bulkheads and longer main bolts etc.

If not for the previously mentioned relief in the block face, using early cranks in a common block would not be an issue.

Any pics of the crank case area of your block??

Thanks
Randy

Yeah I have a 4501851-9 block. It is indistinguishable from a early block until you see the part number and 89 casting date and uses all the early block parts.

[moparman76_69]

Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of the crank area and the pan is back on now. I did take a picture of the casting numbers.

[ILIKESHELBYS]

I guess I got lucky but about 4 years ago I found a car in the salvage yard with a turbo common block and snagged it. It was one of the flat front blocks. To install the earlier 87 forged crank, all I had to do was drill and tap 2 or 3 holes on the front of the block to accept the early front crank seal retainer and then drill and tap 2 bolt holes for the early style pan an match up the correct oil pump pickup. All that went in my 87 GLHS with all early accessories. I did also have to make two small spacers to put under the two bolts that I drilled and tapped for to keep from crushing and breaking the retainer plate. The only other thing I had to do was notch the edge of the oil pan lip to clear the water pump housing and it was a very small notch. That engine ran great and never leaked a drop of oil.

[4 l-bodies]

Well there seems to be some variations on that 4501851 block too. Moparman76_69 block is the earliest I've seen. My block is cast in 93 and the rail area has more material there. The earlier block also seems to have a cast crank. Mine is definitely a steel crank. I added pic of my block and of another members block comparing it to a std. early block.
Todd