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Thread: Brake options for '89 big brake setup

  1. #1
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Brake options for '89 big brake setup

    My '89 Turbo GTC needs all the brakes replaced (again lol). I've never been really happy with it's stopping ability, it stopped but never really felt like it was really grabbing like it should, even after installing the 1.25" truck master cyl. Always felt like I had to stand on them, and i don't think it would ever lock up or a dry clean surface no matter how hard I stood on it. Granted, it weighed right around 3300# with me in it and had 215/50/17 BFG's on it, but still. It just never had that confidence-inspiring, throw you against the seatbelt performance to it.

    I've been pondering it at length, and I'm thinking it may have been due to the Wagner pads i was running. My brother had a similar issue on an F250 he put Wagner TQ's on, wouldn't stop good and pedal always felt semi-soft. Switched to Performance Friction pads and it fixed it. I've been running the semi-metallic TQ's since they were name brand, but got more dissatisfied as time went on. Emergency stops were always a bit sketchy, and never could fully trust them when pushing it in the mountains, in fact I never ran hard downhill due to lack of confidence in them. Calipers were all new, rotors were new (actually twice, replaced the fronts once since owning and they were new when I got the car). I greased slides, bled the system several times, made sure calipers were on the right sides (yes I flipped a set in the rear once, took me a week to realize the bleed screws don't expel air from the caliper well when they point down hehe), replaced the master, prop valve, everything I could think of.

    So, my concensus is it had to be the pads not working well. I'm in the middle of the 2.5 TIII swap in it, and noticed all the rotors need replacing again, as well as 50% wear on the pads. So, I want to replace everything again, with the best street performance stuff I can get. I've read several times on here that Porterfields are great pads, so been leaning towards them. I found this site that that offers them at a pretty good price, along with some rotor options. I'm thinking of getting the Porterfield pads and the SP slotted rotors. Unless someone sees a better set of options on there?

    https://www.topbrakes.com/c/car-items/5117

    Or if there's a site with other/better options, I'm all ears, or eyes rather

    I thought about switching to SRT4 spindles and running a Wilwood big brake kit, but I'd rather keep my bolt-in hub setup if I can make it stop good enough on the 11" vented setup with the right parts.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  2. #2
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Brake options for '89 big brake setup

    I don't mean to insult, but you're getting full pedal travel with the larger MC right? That's a big jump up in bore area. I had the D150 MC on my black omni and it was such a hard pedal that I don't believe I ever got enough travel out of the pedal due to the effort being so great. At the same time the stock MC with the 11" brakes makes the pedal a bit soft and the modulation required lengthy IMO.

    If the porterfields don't do it for you, I don't know what will. A lot of guys mention them when they talk about the best pads you can get. I have the later style knuckles on my CSX and with Rich's Hawk pads I can run the car very hard with full confidence in the stopping ability. Granted, there is a good amount of weight that I'm not carrying around in that car vs. a Lebaron coupe. Still, with DOT 5.1 brake fluid and those pads I have been able to run all out without any brake fade.

    When it comes to rotors, I'm not a big believer in the drilling or slotting. It looks cool, but it only takes away from the area of the rotor. F1 cars don't use them, so I'm inclined to believe they're just for looks. Most pads have a groove for any potential gas to escape anyway.

  3. #3
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Brake options for '89 big brake setup

    I'm not big on slots either, but if the rotor is a higher quality piece than a parts store unit, I'm fine with it.

    I'm not sure how I wouldn't get pedal travel? Everything is original as far as the pedal goes, pedal travel feels roughly the same between the stock master (24mm IIRC) and the truck one. It improved feel slightly but not by much.

    Remember in my old GLHS when I did a SLH swap (minivan front calipers, non-vented rears), with a 24mm master it would about throw me through the windshield. It would brake hard enough that the oil pressure light would come on from oil slosh (no baffle). The Shelby Z with '93 Shadow ES fronts/non-vented rears wasn't quite as violent but had good feel. This GTC makes you wonder if it's going to stop quick enough...
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Brake options for '89 big brake setup

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I don't mean to insult, but you're getting full pedal travel with the larger MC right? That's a big jump up in bore area. I had the D150 MC on my black omni and it was such a hard pedal that I don't believe I ever got enough travel out of the pedal due to the effort being so great. At the same time the stock MC with the 11" brakes makes the pedal a bit soft and the modulation required lengthy IMO.

    If the porterfields don't do it for you, I don't know what will. A lot of guys mention them when they talk about the best pads you can get. I have the later style knuckles on my CSX and with Rich's Hawk pads I can run the car very hard with full confidence in the stopping ability. Granted, there is a good amount of weight that I'm not carrying around in that car vs. a Lebaron coupe. Still, with DOT 5.1 brake fluid and those pads I have been able to run all out without any brake fade.

    When it comes to rotors, I'm not a big believer in the drilling or slotting. It looks cool, but it only takes away from the area of the rotor. F1 cars don't use them, so I'm inclined to believe they're just for looks. Most pads have a groove for any potential gas to escape anyway.
    I noticed a HUGE difference in changing from TQ to Rich's Hawk pads on my 11" setup as suggested by Cordes several months ago. Thanks again Cordes!
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

  5. #5
    turbo addict
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    Re: Brake options for '89 big brake setup

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post

    When it comes to rotors, I'm not a big believer in the drilling or slotting. It looks cool, but it only takes away from the area of the rotor. F1 cars don't use them, so I'm inclined to believe they're just for looks. Most pads have a groove for any potential gas to escape anyway.

    you can't compare F1 brakes to any steel rotor out there. A carbon rotor needs a certain heat temp to even work, also if you look at one they have 1000's yes 1000's of small cooling holes drilled in them from the outside in to the hub. They're also force fed air at speed to regulate temp. After a race distance they throw them away and put new ones on.

    The 11" brakes for these cars are more than stout enough to disapate heat in 99.9% of the condtions out there. A slotted rotor is nice as it disapates any gases that are given off by the pad when braking. Drill rotors are good as long as they're quality is up but that could be hard to find.

    The big MC is going to require more pressure to stop. If you were happy with pedal travel on the stock 4 wheel disc MC I'd swap back. I'd then for sure swap pads. Parts store pads no matter how much they talk them up just suck. Also a good break in to the pads helps in their biting ability.

  6. #6
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Brake options for '89 big brake setup

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    I'm not big on slots either, but if the rotor is a higher quality piece than a parts store unit, I'm fine with it.

    I'm not sure how I wouldn't get pedal travel? Everything is original as far as the pedal goes, pedal travel feels roughly the same between the stock master (24mm IIRC) and the truck one. It improved feel slightly but not by much.

    Remember in my old GLHS when I did a SLH swap (minivan front calipers, non-vented rears), with a 24mm master it would about throw me through the windshield. It would brake hard enough that the oil pressure light would come on from oil slosh (no baffle). The Shelby Z with '93 Shadow ES fronts/non-vented rears wasn't quite as violent but had good feel. This GTC makes you wonder if it's going to stop quick enough...
    In my omni I think I was struggling to get enough force to the pedal in order to get maximum clamping force out of them. Maybe I had a marginal booster also? It stopped on a dime, but I never liked the force required, especially with my position in the car due to my size.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    you can't compare F1 brakes to any steel rotor out there. A carbon rotor needs a certain heat temp to even work, also if you look at one they have 1000's yes 1000's of small cooling holes drilled in them from the outside in to the hub. They're also force fed air at speed to regulate temp. After a race distance they throw them away and put new ones on.

    The 11" brakes for these cars are more than stout enough to disapate heat in 99.9% of the condtions out there. A slotted rotor is nice as it disapates any gases that are given off by the pad when braking. Drill rotors are good as long as they're quality is up but that could be hard to find.

    The big MC is going to require more pressure to stop. If you were happy with pedal travel on the stock 4 wheel disc MC I'd swap back. I'd then for sure swap pads. Parts store pads no matter how much they talk them up just suck. Also a good break in to the pads helps in their biting ability.
    Thanks for the perspective in the F1 rotors. I did some reading on them and they do have 1K holes drilled into them now. I also checked some of my reference photos from the Belle Isle GP this summer, and it looks like some of the Trans Am teams were using slotted rotors. I have seen a lot of IMSA cars with plain rotors too. Either way, it looks like some lightly slotted rotors wouldn't decrease area too much and I can buy the prevention of hydroplaning pads theory enough to make that a consideration. I've been in some crazy rain which caused very poor brake performance multiple times. This was in my 90 Shadow with the pumpers so it's not like I had a lot of area for rain to come in there like in some wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I noticed a HUGE difference in changing from TQ to Rich's Hawk pads on my 11" setup as suggested by Cordes several months ago. Thanks again Cordes!
    I'm glad you liked them. I was very pleased with mine.


    One last thing. I did get some nice Brembo rotors for my Nyer for about $20 each when I did the 11" conversion on it.

  7. #7
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    Re: Brake options for '89 big brake setup

    I'm running Cquence drilled and slotted rotors, EBC yellow pads, Wilwood brake fluid, and steel braided brake hoses in my 91 Spirit R/T. This car stops like yer dropping an anchor!

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    Re: Brake options for '89 big brake setup

    D150 master isn't need IMHO. Have one on the van, it just make the pedal way harder, its coming off for a stocker.

    I ran drilled Ebay rotors and cheap ceramic pads, got them online at some chain store clear out and they were awesome, brake fade was virtually null and i was pushing it hard when testing years ago. I did run Hawks or Akebono's, can't remember and they were better of course.
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