Going away present

[wowzer]

just a point of clarification in terminology from a very basic point of view......

JSR (or jump to subroutine) is NOT an interrupt. it is simply a method to run a group of code easily without having to duplicate the code various times. e.g. when our code needs to do a 4 byte table lookup from various places in the program it calls that routine using a JSR. so in the smec code,e.g., there is a Main program loop made up of almost all JSR calls that is executed sequentially every loop. the main loop itself is only a few lines of code (JSRs), but those execute almost all the code in the program.

Interrupts, on the other hand, do exactly what they sound like. they are typically driven by a hardware event (e.g. hep sensor passes trigger). this "event" interrupts the normal program flow and executes it's own subroutine. after executed the normal program picks up exactly where it was interrupted. there can be multiple interrupts taking place at one time which are serviced in a priority format, i.e. some interrupts are more critical than others and can actually interrupt an interrupt!! and the same interrupt can happen multiple times before the main loop completes (e.g. mpscan can interrupt the process almost every 1 mSec to ask for a byte of data out of ram).

so, i say this to ensure that the terminology is generally correct. a JSR is a good thing. i assume what 5digits is referring to is the addition of new code (typically through a JSR) that increases the main program loop to a size that prevents it from completing within the 11mSec time frame. as i asked earlier, i do not know the exact reasoning for the 11ms loop time but i'm sure there was a calculation done to determine it. so, in effect, if there is too MUCH "code" in the main loop then at a high rate of rpm (which results in a lot of interrupts) the processor will not have time to FIRST handle all the interrupt routines and then still process the remainder of the loop within the necessary time limit. so if the fueling is based on a calculation (called from a JSR!) in the main loop it may not have had time to be updated correctly by the time the next injector firing interrupt is triggered (which will need that data).

ok, now back to our story.

[chromguy]

just a point of clarification in terminology from a very basic point of view......

JSR (or jump to subroutine) is NOT an interrupt.

Agreed and an interrupt commonly runs a sub routine. For clarity, I added interrupt prior to my use of JSR in my above post. Thank you for the catch

[OmniLuvr]

In time, it'll work out

I hope so!

I used to think I was pretty smart when it came to cars, but this thread is somewhat enlightening at the least, and also confusing, but glad I'm reading it! its making sense, but id really need to get some hands on with this stuff. thanks again 5DIGITS, and with the other posts (vigo, chromguy, wowzer, etc), it does kind of make me want to look into other tuning areas with more standalone type stuff. ive always thought "well they went this fast on this computer so why upgrade", but now it really has me thinking...

wish I had something to contribute...

also, id like to get rid of boost control from the cal if it would free some space up, I use a greddy boost controller with great success...

[Shadow]

Well, I for one hope that this development continues because it seems to me that being able to make power ABOVE ~5400 rpm is one major thing this community rarely succeeds at. Not an issue for most builds but certainly the main reason you don't see 'big numbers' coming from our turbo mopars very often.

If this is in fact true, it's sad, to say the least, because it simply means that most are still not paying any attention to putting together the Correct pieces of the puzzle to achieve the desired result.

There are more than enough eg's out there of our mtrs making power well beyond 6000 and even 7000rpm that no one should be stuck at 5400rpm IF they don't want to be! (regardless of the subject matter in this thread )

[5DIGITS]

just a point of clarification in terminology from a very basic point of view......

JSR (or jump to subroutine) is NOT an interrupt. it is simply a method to run a group of code easily without having to duplicate the code various times. e.g. when our code needs to do a 4 byte table lookup from various places in the program it calls that routine using a JSR. so in the smec code,e.g., there is a Main program loop made up of almost all JSR calls that is executed sequentially every loop. the main loop itself is only a few lines of code (JSRs), but those execute almost all the code in the program.

Interrupts, on the other hand, do exactly what they sound like. they are typically driven by a hardware event (e.g. hep sensor passes trigger). this "event" interrupts the normal program flow and executes it's own subroutine. after executed the normal program picks up exactly where it was interrupted. there can be multiple interrupts taking place at one time which are serviced in a priority format, i.e. some interrupts are more critical than others and can actually interrupt an interrupt!! and the same interrupt can happen multiple times before the main loop completes (e.g. mpscan can interrupt the process almost every 1 mSec to ask for a byte of data out of ram).

so, i say this to ensure that the terminology is generally correct. a JSR is a good thing. i assume what 5digits is referring to is the addition of new code (typically through a JSR) that increases the main program loop to a size that prevents it from completing within the 11mSec time frame. as i asked earlier, i do not know the exact reasoning for the 11ms loop time but i'm sure there was a calculation done to determine it. so, in effect, if there is too MUCH "code" in the main loop then at a high rate of rpm (which results in a lot of interrupts) the processor will not have time to FIRST handle all the interrupt routines and then still process the remainder of the loop within the necessary time limit. so if the fueling is based on a calculation (called from a JSR!) in the main loop it may not have had time to be updated correctly by the time the next injector firing interrupt is triggered (which will need that data).

ok, now back to our story.

You may be confusing the production JSR's to handle table interpolation with a JSR that jumps to expected code or a new table altogether within the expansion space of the eprom.
In one case it's an expected calculation due to production programming in the other its 'interrupting' the normal program flow to service what was added and never intended to be there. In any case, it taxes the CPU and loop time when it's not offset by some other means.

[5DIGITS]

If this is in fact true, it's sad, to say the least, because it simply means that most are still not paying any attention to putting together the Correct pieces of the puzzle to achieve the desired result.

There are more than enough eg's out there of our mtrs making power well beyond 6000 and even 7000rpm that no one should be stuck at 5400rpm IF they don't want to be! (regardless of the subject matter in this thread )

Extremely well said - one can only imagine how having actual fuel and spark control above these points may be to realize a level of benefit !!

[tryingbe]

Any one had any communication with FWD?

[sdac guy]

Any one had any communication with FWD?

She was last on here 11/3/16, almost 2 weeks before this thread started.


Barry

[Shadow]

I've known Cindy for a Long time. I'm quite confident that she would have Zero interest in something that will really have Zero impact on Anything FWD Performance does.

I mean really, Do you see FWD Performance using Terminator cals?!!! lol

If it is 5DIGITS wishes that FWD Performance doesn't use the new cal templates then I'm sure she's Fine with that..........

(the drama surrounding this reminds me of when I was in high school lol)

The Real Q Should be; What if I want one of the vendors to do my cal, because I am not interested or capable of tackling it myself, and I want a cal with the new programing? IF the vendors charge the same amount they always have, then the new programing is Still FREE! (ie. there was no extra charge for it because the vendor only charged the time for the custom cal itself)

Like I already said, it seems ridiculous to me that we are (for the most part) grown Mature adults, yet we still feel the need to play at this like little children.............

[5DIGITS]

I've known Cindy for a Long time. I'm quite confident that she would have Zero interest in something that will really have Zero impact on Anything FWD Performance does.

I mean really, Do you see FWD Performance using Terminator cals?!!! lol

If it is 5DIGITS wishes that FWD Performance doesn't use the new cal templates then I'm sure she's Fine with that..........

(the drama surrounding this reminds me of when I was in high school lol)

The Real Q Should be; What if I want one of the vendors to do my cal, because I am not interested or capable of tackling it myself, and I want a cal with the new programing? IF the vendors charge the same amount they always have, then the new programing is Still FREE! (ie. there was no extra charge for it because the vendor only charged the time for the custom cal itself)

Like I already said, it seems ridiculous to me that we are (for the most part) grown Mature adults, yet we still feel the need to play at this like little children.............

Again - very well said and like you - I despise drama ( I get enough of that from my ex-wife ).
There's two ways to approach this...
I can issue calibrations as pre-defined for 2.5 bar for +20% and +40% injectors and you get what you get.
Since the entire MAP and table locations have been rearranged - they will be a mess and won't align with anything known for the past 20+ years.
OR...
I can release updated software foundations along with a MAP files that allows everyone to calibrate as they wish - but yes... for free.
It's huge for those have acknowledged and agreed versus those that have not - on that alone, I'm tempted to release to those that agreed and the others - Sorry !!
Bad Call !!!!!

[Shadow]

Again - very well said and like you - I despise drama ( I get enough of that from my ex-wife ).
There's two ways to approach this...
I can issue calibrations as pre-defined for 2.5 bar for +20% and +40% injectors and you get what you get.
Since the entire MAP and table locations have been rearranged - they will be a mess and won't align with anything known for the past 20+ years.
OR...
I can release updated software foundations along with a MAP files that allows everyone to calibrate as they wish - but yes... for free.
It's huge for those have acknowledged and agreed versus those that have not - on that alone, I'm tempted to release to those that agreed and the others - Sorry !!
Bad Call !!!!!

Ken, like I stated earlier, it is your decision what to do with this, and I don't think anyone else can dictate by any means of Promise or otherwise to change the path that You decide you want to take, for whatever personal reasons you have. I'm just surprised you chose to do it in this manner.

You Must have enough experience in life to understand that once something is out, there will always be someone, somewhere who attempts to profit from it. (whether they gave their word or not, it is simply the nature of the beast)

I think the Strongest hand you have is that; If Everyone Knows its FREE, then it would only be on Them IF they chose to pay for it......No?

[tryingbe]

She was last on here 11/3/16, almost 2 weeks before this thread started.


Barry

I've checked her profile. What I meant was did anyone call or email her yet?

[5DIGITS]

All,
First and foremost, I greatly appreciate your interest and feedback.
Where many have indicated an assumed lack of interest in profiting from whats being offered for free - lack of commitment speaks louder.
Therefore, I will be offering pre-defined cals that will come with no guidance or supporting MAP files for user adjustment.
Where many have referenced 'childish behavior', attempts were simple and fairly straight forward.
"Don't profit from what you had no part of developing while taking credit for what you do not own".

I'll release these updated S19's as deemed when convenient.
I sincerely apologize for any lack of supportive vendor participation as they have certainly impacted this for all of us.

[maddmannda]

All,
First and foremost, I greatly appreciate your interest and feedback.
Where many have indicated an assumed lack of interest in profiting from whats being offered for free - lack of commitment speaks louder.
Therefore, I will be offering pre-defined cals that will come with no guidance or supporting MAP files for user adjustment.
Where many have referenced 'childish behavior', attempts were simple and fairly straight forward.
"Don't profit from what you had no part of developing while taking credit for what you do not own".

I'll release these updated S19's as deemed when convenient.
I sincerely apologize for any lack of supportive vendor participation as they have certainly impacted this for all of us.

Is there no other option? Couldn't someone build a site or page to house all of the info? Require a login and registration that includes conditions to access and use the information. To further filter unwanted problems, require a minimal registration fee via a secure site such as PP.

Mark

[crazychris]

Thats unfortunate. Not a surprising but still very unfortunate.

Unsubscribed

[chromguy]

All,
First and foremost, I greatly appreciate your interest and feedback.
Where many have indicated an assumed lack of interest in profiting from whats being offered for free - lack of commitment speaks louder.
Therefore, I will be offering pre-defined cals that will come with no guidance or supporting MAP files for user adjustment.
Where many have referenced 'childish behavior', attempts were simple and fairly straight forward.
"Don't profit from what you had no part of developing while taking credit for what you do not own".

I'll release these updated S19's as deemed when convenient.
I sincerely apologize for any lack of supportive vendor participation as they have certainly impacted this for all of us.

I believe Chris was supportive from TU as posted earlier in this thread.

[wheming]

That is pretty sad. I was really looking forward to seeing more of what you were cooking up Mr. Ken.
I'm still hopeful the situation could change.

[Shadow]

All,
It may be time to offer uniquely identifiable code bases that ARE NOT intended for re-sale and it will be strongly discouraged and exposed, for those attempting to do so. If this occurs, I assure you - support will stop immediately.

please be patient but aware that something new is on the horizon.. as a going away present.

Enjoy !!

Ken, Sorry you are such a sensitive person and can not find the means to get past that sensitivity to a state of reason.(not saying good or bad, some are just more sensitive to certain subjects than others) I did not come on here to play on your sensitivity, rather to try and help you understand that what you have stated is in fact a contradiction, and was doomed to fail from the beginning. (by your own hand, whether you intended it or not)

In your opening statement, you say all that is needed to say, and I believe it was enough that the community "gets it" and so IF anyone was trying to profit from this I would think/ Hope that it would be discouraged and exposed as you stated.

Now, IF your True intent was to offer this FREE, this is about as far as you could go in an effort to keep anyone from profiting from it. Anything further on your part now becomes a "condition" and the offering becomes no longer "FREE". Thus the contradiction.

FREE is FREE, No strings attached! The Hard part is understanding that when you come to a point of Peace in your soul, so much so, that you can Truly give things away for FREE, once done, you give UP the control you once had and it is now in the hands of those who you have given the "FREE gift" to.

In my life I have found very few are capable of this. Now don't get me wrong, I see people giving things away all the time, but most times it comes with conditions.........Not FREE!

Why people insist on preoccupying their time with things that are completely out of there control I will never understand, but it is the nature of the beast.

"I gave my brother my old car for FREE to help him out and he went and sold it! Can you believe that?! The Nerve, and now I'm Really Pissed and will never do that again!!!!!"(+ he didn't even offer to split the cash with me!!!!)

My response; "You said you gave it to him for FREE? No?"

"Yeah, that's what I said."

"So it was his to do with as he saw fit. The Moment you gave it to him for FREE, you relinquished ALL control you had over it and gave Sole discretion to the new owner. I really don't see why you should be upset, because I really don't see anything he did was wrong. Didn't you say you gave it to him to help him out? Maybe he needed the money more than the car and that ended up being the Help You gave him?"

Ken, for the record, I have nothing against you and No vested interest in anything being offered here because I've had ZERO issues with the SMEC electronics we've been running for over 15 years and 7500rpm. I simply thought I could help resolve this through reason, as I could plainly see that you were contradicting yourself and asking for something that does not and can not exist. (IF you truly Meant FREE when you said FREE!)

I'm sorry you choose not to see this; but I hope (for those who have interest in this) that you find a more pragmatic approach.

"It may be time to offer uniquely identifiable code bases that ARE NOT intended for re-sale and it will be strongly discouraged and exposed, for those attempting to do so. If this occurs, I assure you - support will stop immediately."

Your words, and all that I think needed to be said!

[5DIGITS]

Ken, Sorry you are such a sensitive person and can not find the means to get past that sensitivity to a state of reason.(not saying good or bad, some are just more sensitive to certain subjects than others) I did not come on here to play on your sensitivity, rather to try and help you understand that what you have stated is in fact a contradiction, and was doomed to fail from the beginning. (by your own hand, whether you intended it or not)

In your opening statement, you say all that is needed to say, and I believe it was enough that the community "gets it" and so IF anyone was trying to profit from this I would think/ Hope that it would be discouraged and exposed as you stated.

Now, IF your True intent was to offer this FREE, this is about as far as you could go in an effort to keep anyone from profiting from it. Anything further on your part now becomes a "condition" and the offering becomes no longer "FREE". Thus the contradiction.

FREE is FREE, No strings attached! The Hard part is understanding that when you come to a point of Peace in your soul, so much so, that you can Truly give things away for FREE, once done, you give UP the control you once had and it is now in the hands of those who you have given the "FREE gift" to.

In my life I have found very few are capable of this. Now don't get me wrong, I see people giving things away all the time, but most times it comes with conditions.........Not FREE!

Why people insist on preoccupying their time with things that are completely out of there control I will never understand, but it is the nature of the beast.

"I gave my brother my old car for FREE to help him out and he went and sold it! Can you believe that?! The Nerve, and now I'm Really Pissed and will never do that again!!!!!"(+ he didn't even offer to split the cash with me!!!!)

My response; "You said you gave it to him for FREE? No?"

"Yeah, that's what I said."

"So it was his to do with as he saw fit. The Moment you gave it to him for FREE, you relinquished ALL control you had over it and gave Sole discretion to the new owner. I really don't see why you should be upset, because I really don't see anything he did was wrong. Didn't you say you gave it to him to help him out? Maybe he needed the money more than the car and that ended up being the Help You gave him?"

Ken, for the record, I have nothing against you and No vested interest in anything being offered here because I've had ZERO issues with the SMEC electronics we've been running for over 15 years and 7500rpm. I simply thought I could help resolve this through reason, as I could plainly see that you were contradicting yourself and asking for something that does not and can not exist. (IF you truly Meant FREE when you said FREE!)

I'm sorry you choose not to see this; but I hope (for those who have interest in this) that you find a more pragmatic approach.

"It may be time to offer uniquely identifiable code bases that ARE NOT intended for re-sale and it will be strongly discouraged and exposed, for those attempting to do so. If this occurs, I assure you - support will stop immediately."

Your words, and all that I think needed to be said!

Thanks 'Shadow'.. I genuinely appreciate your input and who you represent... I sincerely do.
To avoid cluttering the thread and for those that type respectfully - Let's move on.
Have faith - it'll all work out.

[chromguy]

Excellent news!!!!!