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Thread: TIII Shelby Charger

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    TIII Shelby Charger

    We've been preparing a Shelby charger for a TIII transplant (amoungst other things) and I thought I'd share some of the things we'll be doing. There are a # of things that need to be corrected when building a powerfull L-body and most of them are not well documented.

    This will not be an all-out build by any means, just a nice 350+WHP pump gas L-body that should be a fun driver. The owner Glenn, a good friend of mine, may autocross the car, but will deff take it down the 1/4 to see how it goes. Should be a solid 11 sec full bodied street cruiser!

    Will be looking to you TIII guys for some advice on what we should/shouldn't mess with on the mtr. I'll see if I can get some pics up soon.

    rob

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
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  2. #2
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Couple pics of the front cradle and under the wheel wells. We weld 1/8th " steel inserts to solidify the entire front lower cradle and solid seem weld the front corners and the entire seem under the wheel well and strut towers.
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    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  3. #3
    Hot Certified Christians at TD! Turbo Mopar Staff Directconnection's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    I'll be watching on the T-III buildup

    I like the idea of reinforcing the frame and rad support. I do have one Q: sometimes spot welding works better, as it allows the frame and sheetmetal to flex. If too rigid, that's how cracks can develop. I'm sure you are aware of this.... but I'd like to know how much to go with and what has worked for others.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

    Steve

    '90 VNT competition package Shadow - T-III SC6262 conversion/restoration
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    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Good stuff, can't wait to see more. I myself am building a TIII Omni but I'm only going for 300 WHP tops and starting off at stock power levels. I never really though about doing anything to the frame like you guys have done. I already had the K-frame fully seam welded so maybe I should look into that, especially the strut towers and radiator support.

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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Looks good,

    For TIII advice, not much really to give, its just like a regular engine, but makes more power,

    If its quiet, just reuse the lifters, get adjustable cam gears, look for cam pitting, cracked head, bottom end is normal TM stuff.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
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  6. #6
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    It's not as easy to fit the TIII in an L-body engine bay. The cam gears run into the L-body passenger side motor mount. You can't run the serpentine belt setup because the bay is narrower, so you have to improvise there. Very limited selection of radiators that will fit due to the intake manifold sticking out too far; even a custom intake isn't going to help much there. I would like to see others solutions to these problems. I have some of them ironed out on my own car; others I just haven't got that far with it yet.

  7. #7
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor rx2mazda's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    looks good Rob! What is the approx. debut date?
    Carroll

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  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by rx2mazda View Post
    looks good Rob! What is the approx. debut date?
    Believe it or not, I'm hoping to have this baby rolling by mid summer.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  9. #9
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Directconnection View Post
    I'll be watching on the T-III buildup

    I like the idea of reinforcing the frame and rad support. I do have one Q: sometimes spot welding works better, as it allows the frame and sheetmetal to flex. If too rigid, that's how cracks can develop. I'm sure you are aware of this.... but I'd like to know how much to go with and what has worked for others.
    I've been welding the seams solid (one side only) for about 10 years now. I should take a good look at the first L-body I did like this as it will be at the shop some time this summer. So far I haven't seen any ill effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Looks good,

    For TIII advice, not much really to give, its just like a regular engine, but makes more power,

    If its quiet, just reuse the lifters, get adjustable cam gears, look for cam pitting, cracked head, bottom end is normal TM stuff.
    I was reffering more to the larger oil pump gear, different timing belt route, and the hand full of other mods that ppl were talking about when running one of these mtrs. Weather to go with the spring relief retainers and upgrade lifters ect.

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    It's not as easy to fit the TIII in an L-body engine bay. The cam gears run into the L-body passenger side motor mount. You can't run the serpentine belt setup because the bay is narrower, so you have to improvise there. Very limited selection of radiators that will fit due to the intake manifold sticking out too far; even a custom intake isn't going to help much there. I would like to see others solutions to these problems. I have some of them ironed out on my own car; others I just haven't got that far with it yet.
    We "notched" the frame on the pass side so that the mtr fits like it was from the factory. The serp belt will work and you can change it "in car" as if it were any other TIII. This car is also going to be running air and as many options as it can.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  10. #10
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Wow if that all works I think you will have the first TIII L body with a serp belt and a/c.

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    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo3Iroc View Post
    Wow if that all works I think you will have the first TIII L body with a serp belt and a/c.
    I think Alan's Rampage was a frame notch job also. I recall asking him at one point what he did for the PS pump and him explaining the PO notched the frame and used all the T-III stuff.

    Check with Alan if you want any info on how his car is set up.

  12. #12
    Hot Certified Christians at TD! Turbo Mopar Staff Directconnection's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    I think Alan's Rampage was a frame notch job also. I recall asking him at one point what he did for the PS pump and him explaining the PO notched the frame and used all the T-III stuff.

    Check with Alan if you want any info on how his car is set up.
    How about for a P-body? No fitment issues then?
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

    Steve

    '90 VNT competition package Shadow - T-III SC6262 conversion/restoration
    '91 Spirit R/T - white
    '91 Spirit R/T - white
    '92 IROC R/T - red
    '67 Barracuda 273 now, 440/727 awaits....

  13. #13
    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Directconnection View Post
    How about for a P-body? No fitment issues then?
    Nope, fits like it should have been in there in the first place.

    The only mod necessary was minor grinding on the early passenger side mount bracket (mine is an '88) to clear the intake cam gear.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo3Iroc View Post
    Wow if that all works I think you will have the first TIII L body with a serp belt and a/c.
    Did you mean *working* AC I still have to fab up the custom L body AC lines, it's on the list but so are 100 other things. It's tight even with the notch tho, the PS pump pulley is maybe 1/4" from the frame rail.

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Did you mean *working* AC I still have to fab up the custom L body AC lines, it's on the list but so are 100 other things. It's tight even with the notch tho, the PS pump pulley is maybe 1/4" from the frame rail.
    Sounds very close to what we did. There's Just enough room to change the belt without disturbing anything.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  16. #16
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    I wish I could run the serpentine belt setup, but I'll be running modified 8v stuff and converting to the ZF p/s pump. I had the serp belt setup mocked up in my Omni and it was way too close for my liking and I couldn't bring myself to cut the car's frame. I think I'm going to need a custom pressure line because the L-bodies never came with ZF pump from the factory as far as I know, and a K-based car line would be too long.

    Modifying the motor mount bracket for the intake cam gear seems straightforward, but is there any way of removing the cam gear once the head is on, or does the motor mount bracket have to be entirely disassembled?

    For a radiator I found that a GLHS unit just barely fits with a very low profile fan (14" Derale Tornado). I had a big NPR intercooler in the car before but there is no way that is going to fit with the intake manifold. If there is any hope for me to keep that IC I may have to get a Scirocco radiator which others seem to use with success.

  17. #17
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    I wish I could run the serpentine belt setup, but I'll be running modified 8v stuff and converting to the ZF p/s pump. I had the serp belt setup mocked up in my Omni and it was way too close for my liking and I couldn't bring myself to cut the car's frame. I think I'm going to need a custom pressure line because the L-bodies never came with ZF pump from the factory as far as I know, and a K-based car line would be too long.

    Modifying the motor mount bracket for the intake cam gear seems straightforward, but is there any way of removing the cam gear once the head is on, or does the motor mount bracket have to be entirely disassembled?

    For a radiator I found that a GLHS unit just barely fits with a very low profile fan (14" Derale Tornado). I had a big NPR intercooler in the car before but there is no way that is going to fit with the intake manifold. If there is any hope for me to keep that IC I may have to get a Scirocco radiator which others seem to use with success.
    Everything is a trade-off. We were fully capable of modifying the frame while at the same time making it 10X stronger than it ever was. A very simple solution that now allows everything to work without a lot of messing around with other parts. I can understand that some would be "uncomfortable" doing this.

    The Scirocco rad is a nice fit. You can run it right underneath the cradle and free up a ton of space in front of the mtr.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  18. #18
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Nope, fits like it should have been in there in the first place.

    The only mod necessary was minor grinding on the early passenger side mount bracket (mine is an '88) to clear the intake cam gear.
    Yeah, the TIII bracket is notched, I found that one out the hard way, painted my 8 valve, go to put it on, wouldn't clear, GRRRRRRRRRR.

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    I wish I could run the serpentine belt setup, but I'll be running modified 8v stuff and converting to the ZF p/s pump. I had the serp belt setup mocked up in my Omni and it was way too close for my liking and I couldn't bring myself to cut the car's frame. I think I'm going to need a custom pressure line because the L-bodies never came with ZF pump from the factory as far as I know, and a K-based car line would be too long.
    Just buy a new one and have a hydraulic shop remake it shorter.

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    Modifying the motor mount bracket for the intake cam gear seems straightforward, but is there any way of removing the cam gear once the head is on, or does the motor mount bracket have to be entirely disassembled?
    That's the deal on all TIII motors, I can't get mine off without removing the engine bracket.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
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  19. #19
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Did you mean *working* AC I still have to fab up the custom L body AC lines, it's on the list but so are 100 other things. It's tight even with the notch tho, the PS pump pulley is maybe 1/4" from the frame rail.
    Yes, what is A/C if it doesn't work? haha. I didn't know your car had a serp belt. Props to you.

  20. #20
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TIII Shelby Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo3Iroc View Post
    Yes, what is A/C if it doesn't work?
    Two sixty air!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

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