Need help with WB2NB

[1986GLH]

So I recently hooked up the 5 volt output from my AEM wideband to the SMEC's oxygen sensor input. I turned on the WB2NB in my calibration and scaled the WidebandToAFRTransferFuction table to what the AEM installation guide said to. When I hook up mpscan to the car though, the airfuel ratio on the wideband does not match what mpscan shows. Is there anything else that I need to do to make it work? I did some datalogging today and tried to upload the .csv file into mptune and it will not load. Anyone have any guidance? Thanks.

By the way the can is an 88 Chrysler New Yorker with a 2.4 swap running a SMEC.

[1BADVAN]

I am glad this is posted i am doing this this week also, I believe you have to adjust the gauge in MPScan to match your outputs also
wowzer mentione this here http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...-MPScan/page23

So, make sure you are using version 2.0.3.6. Then,

1) go to settings/layout files/user gauge settings
2) click add gauge
3) select, e.g. "enginerpm_hb" which will add the gauge settings to the list.
4) then modify the cells as desired. e.g. to limit the display to 6000 change "display max" to 6000. also, if you don't like the tick mark numbers only showing the major 1000 value (i.e. 1,2,3,4,5,6) but would rather show the full value (1000,2000,etc) then change the divisior back to 1 vs 1000.
5) exit the cell and click save

the new settings will only be applied to new gauges added to a layout. if you already have an rpm gauge setup it will not change. also, about the only time you would ever change the ecu min/max values would be when you are setting up the AFRwb gauge since each manufacturer will have different low/high range supported.

give it a whirl and let me know.

[wowzer]

So I recently hooked up the 5 volt output from my AEM wideband to the SMEC's oxygen sensor input. I turned on the WB2NB in my calibration and scaled the WidebandToAFRTransferFuction table to what the AEM installation guide said to. When I hook up mpscan to the car though, the airfuel ratio on the wideband does not match what mpscan shows. Is there anything else that I need to do to make it work? I did some datalogging today and tried to upload the .csv file into mptune and it will not load. Anyone have any guidance? Thanks.

By the way the can is an 88 Chrysler New Yorker with a 2.4 swap running a SMEC.

post up your mpscan log file (ends with .mpl). i'll take a look to make sure your gauge is setup correctly. send me the aem installation guide parameters also, e.g. 0v = xx.x afr/lamda and 5v = xx.x afr/lamda.

[Vigo]

That's the newer body style that NOONE i can think of has ever boosted, right? If so, very cool!! It would have had to originally be a 3.0 car.

I was just thinking about implementing this feature on my Spirit so i too am glad it's come up..

[1986GLH]

I am glad this is posted i am doing this this week also, I believe you have to adjust the gauge in MPScan to match your outputs also
wowzer mentione this here http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...-MPScan/page23

I'll take a look at this tomorrow.

post up your mpscan log file (ends with .mpl). i'll take a look to make sure your gauge is setup correctly. send me the aem installation guide parameters also, e.g. 0v = xx.x afr/lamda and 5v = xx.x afr/lamda.

I'll post it all in the morning.

That's the newer body style that NOONE i can think of has ever boosted, right? If so, very cool!! It would have had to originally be a 3.0 car.

I was just thinking about implementing this feature on my Spirit so i too am glad it's come up..

Nope it's still the old body style. The only year of the E-body New Yorker with a SMEC.

[1986GLH]

I am glad this is posted i am doing this this week also, I believe you have to adjust the gauge in MPScan to match your outputs also
wowzer mentione this here http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...-MPScan/page23

So I just looked into this and it looks like my mpscan gauge was not matched correctly to the outputs. So I fixed that and will test it this afternoon.

post up your mpscan log file (ends with .mpl). i'll take a look to make sure your gauge is setup correctly. send me the aem installation guide parameters also, e.g. 0v = xx.x afr/lamda and 5v = xx.x afr/lamda.

So I can't find the .mpl file anywhere, just the .csv files. The AEM installation guide parameters are 0v = 10.00 and 5v = 20

[1BADVAN]

Ever get it figured out?

[wheming]

post up your mpscan log file (ends with .mpl). i'll take a look to make sure your gauge is setup correctly. send me the aem installation guide parameters also, e.g. 0v = xx.x afr/lamda and 5v = xx.x afr/lamda.

Speaking of afr's and lamda (which is Greek to me ) would it be a benefit to try and convert the WB2NB control to use the lamda values? This way varying fuels would be so much of an issue. My understanding is the lamda values for stoich are the same across the fuels, but the afr are all over the place depending on fuel type and the gauge converts to an afr based on which fuel is set in the wideband gauge.
But i don't know what sort of problem that would create for the ecu calibration and programming. I guess it wouldn't be relatively "easy"?

[wowzer]

hmm, lamda is probably the best way to do it. you would have to back calculate the lambda values to get the afr ratio if desired. what is the min/max lamda values used by your gauge according to the aem manual? if the min val is 0.683 then set the min ecu value to that and if the max value is 1.365 (e.g.) then set the ecu max to that. you'll also need to change the display min/max values to maybe .6 to 1.4. then you would tune to a lamda value. using lamda also should take the different gasoline stoich values out of the picture i believe.

then if you get a log you would need to convert the lamda to afr based on the gas stoich you used (in case you wanted to load it into the wideband data option for use with the peftbl graph). you'll also want to calculate any voltage offsets as per the manual.

[wowzer]

just another thought, if you are running an e10 blend your actual stoich afr is around 14.13 vs 14.69 ish for straight gasoline. i believe the AFR lines in mptune are based on a 14.7 stoich value!?!

also, here's one of many links out there that give a suggestion of what lamda you should tune to

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...oxygen-sensor/

[wheming]

hmm, lamda is probably the best way to do it. you would have to back calculate the lambda values to get the afr ratio if desired. what is the min/max lamda values used by your gauge according to the aem manual? if the min val is 0.683 then set the min ecu value to that and if the max value is 1.365 (e.g.) then set the ecu max to that. you'll also need to change the display min/max values to maybe .6 to 1.4. then you would tune to a lamda value. using lamda also should take the different gasoline stoich values out of the picture i believe.

then if you get a log you would need to convert the lamda to afr based on the gas stoich you used (in case you wanted to load it into the wideband data option for use with the peftbl graph). you'll also want to calculate any voltage offsets as per the manual.

Could the AFR tool in MPTune be converted to tune for lambda?
Or does a change like this affrct too many tables to convert?
It may help those who are tuning with different fuels, different blends, or like me might add a gal or 2 of 116 to a partial tank when racing. Then you have no idea for certsin whst your specific gravity is.
Maybe it doesn't matter, but eventually if you want to push the envelope of ones setup, having a better handle on this might be useful and help to wring out a bit more.

And i didn't mean to muddy the water for the OP. The WB2NB function works, and i have been using it on Mini exclusively for 2 years. I have no narrowband sensor, only the wideband.
The important thing is to be sure as Morris explained, to set the correct instrument range data into the table of MPTune. I've noticed it does also change the other table, the one that converts the wideband to the narrowband, you'll have to maintain that rich/center/lean transition. Save or write those values down before you change the scale (what 0v equals and what 5v equals).
I can't provide screenshots to help explain because i am at work.
You'll have to likewise change the MPScan gauge settings.

Once you have the two setup properly, MPTune and MPScan it should read close when logging.
Don't forget to reflash your cal once you change that stuff in MPTune. You'll have to resave your cal template and compile a new bin.

Its not quite as hard as it sounds. But hopefully i didn't add confusion.

[olk93]

Quick question: assuming the wb sensor is linear and has 5v max. for rich mixture.
Can't i just use a 1/5 voltage divider (say 2 resistors) ?
The stock nb-sensor in my '93 LB 3LV6 works in the 0-1 Volt range with 0.5 Volt having lambda = 1

[1BADVAN]

Quick question: assuming the wb sensor is linear and has 5v max. for rich mixture.
Can't i just use a 1/5 voltage divider (say 2 resistors) ?
The stock nb-sensor in my '93 LB 3LV6 works in the 0-1 Volt range with 0.5 Volt having lambda = 1

So I understand correctly are you trying to use a narrow band O2 for this feature?

[olk93]

Hell no, i guess that would be an idiot idea

It was just an offtopic question. I wanted to know in general if a wbO2 sensor delivers 0-5V and if yes - then could i replace the stock nb with a wb and adjust it's output (to match the nb). By dividing the wb sensor output by 5 - eg. using 2 resistors instead of adding/modifying code in the bin (which would be a "time consuming" division by 5).

short: 2 resistors to avoid math in .bin and reprogramming ecm. (for being able to use a WB O2 in a stock ecm)

[wheming]

Hell no, i guess that would be an idiot idea

It was just an offtopic question. I wanted to know in general if a wbO2 sensor delivers 0-5V and if yes - then could i replace the stock nb with a wb and adjust it's output (to match the nb). By dividing the wb sensor output by 5 - eg. using 2 resistors instead of adding/modifying code in the bin (which would be a "time consuming" division by 5).

short: 2 resistors to avoid math in .bin and reprogramming ecm. (for being able to use a WB O2 in a stock ecm)

The simplest method would be to use a wbo2 gauge that provides a 0-1v output, then send that to the O2 signal wire.
If you have the means to use a different cal in your ecu, then you can use the turbonator cal to have the WB2NB function in the cal, in which case you'd send the 0-5v output to the ecu via the O2 signal wire.

[olk93]

hmmm ... let me put it this way : i was little surprised reading about wb-o2 sensors delivering voltages.
The ones i knew of worked within some mA range.
So to make them work for our ecus one would need to feed the sensor output to a sort of transimpedance amplifier (TIA). Thats a current-to-voltage converter, most often implemented using an op-amp.
Check this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transimpedance_amplifier

I would be nice if somebody would point me to some wbo2 sensors delivering voltages.

[wheming]

hmmm ... let me put it this way : i was little surprised reading about wb-o2 sensors delivering voltages.
The ones i knew of worked within some mA range.
So to make them work for our ecus one would need to feed the sensor output to a sort of transimpedance amplifier (TIA). Thats a current-to-voltage converter, most often implemented using an op-amp.
Check this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transimpedance_amplifier

I would be nice if somebody would point me to some wbo2 sensors delivering voltages.

I use an Innovate MTX-L, others use the AEM UEGO one.
The MTX-L i have provides two analog outputs, one for narrowband 0-1v, and one for WB 0-5v.
There's a big division over which wideband to use. Some folks hate the Innovate, and think it is bad that you actually calibrate the controller to the sensor.
So do your own research on those to decide for yourself. I don't know if the AEM wideband has a 0-1v output, and it looks like the newer MTX-L has 2 configurable outputs thatcare 0-5v. So i don't know if it can be configured for narrowband output.

[ShelGame]

hmmm ... let me put it this way : i was little surprised reading about wb-o2 sensors delivering voltages.
The ones i knew of worked within some mA range.
So to make them work for our ecus one would need to feed the sensor output to a sort of transimpedance amplifier (TIA). Thats a current-to-voltage converter, most often implemented using an op-amp.
Check this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transimpedance_amplifier

I would be nice if somebody would point me to some wbo2 sensors delivering voltages.

It's not the sensor itself. It's the controller that outputs a linear voltage with AFR or Lambda...