How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for

[GLHS60]

His extensively reworked 1 piece probably helps take advantage of the late cam timing


Any pics of this reworked one piece Randy? I only have a couple of 2 piece manifolds left but I may never run out of the 1 piece's so if they work well and keep me out of scrutiny with the Cali Smog police I may be modding a few more...

This isn't his intake but its similar to this one by member bostgeek.

Thanks
Randy



- - - Updated - - -

I thanks for asking Randy!

I just posted some pics of your intake, hope you don't mind.

Easier to ask for forgives than permission!!

Maybe you have some more...



Thanks
Randy

[GLHS60]

It's funny how close his 2.5L match my 2.2L torque curve, up to about 6100rpm. My cam timing is advanced by 1 degree, perhaps I should dyno it again when the weather is cooler.

Yes, I would be curious how a 2.2 responds to late cam timing.

If I ever get mine back together I'll be experimenting for sure!!

Be cool if it responded like his 2.5 !!

Thanks
Randy

[GLHS60]

As we're telling secrets I thought I would post this little gem...
Keep it on the down low please.

Thanks
Randy

[wheming]

As we're telling secrets I thought I would post this little gem...
Keep it on the down low please.

Thanks
Randy

Geez!
I didn't know you could powdercoat swiss cheese!
Learn something new all the time...

[Keito]

Was that "Pope" who said that? You know...the guy that did something like 180mph in a stock GLHS (or so he claimed at one point)? LOL

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ake&highlight=

[glhs875]

Yes, I would be curious how a 2.2 responds to late cam timing.

If I ever get mine back together I'll be experimenting for sure!!

Be cool if it responded like his 2.5 !!

Thanks
Randy

My 2.2 with a '89 T1 cam retarded I think 6 degrees (can't remember) would pull hard to 7K. That is where I would shift! The turbo was a SC6152- huge exhaust- big intercooler- a lot of port work. The car would run low 8.30's @ 90 mph with 3 stages of boost (to keep traction) with max boost being only 20psi. And the runs were done on 400 treadwear street radials. The combo had ALOT left in it.

[Vigo]

My 2.2 with a '89 T1 cam retarded I think 6 degrees (can't remember) would pull hard to 7K. That is where I would shift! The turbo was a SC6152- huge exhaust- big intercooler- a lot of port work. The car would run low 8.30's @ 90 mph with 3 stages of boost (to keep traction) with max boost being only 20psi. And the runs were done on 400 treadwear street radials. The combo had ALOT left in it.

I miss hearing about that setup.. I couldn't say for sure but it was probably one of the first things that opened my eyes to cam retard on our 'poor flowing' 8v setups being worth a shot.

[Gaboon]

I see a lot of guys using terms as retarded or advanced X deg but in reality is misleading.
The cam degree is relative to the crank @TDC which is going to be slightly different in any two engines due to machining tolerances.

Cam timing will also change if the head or block is decked.
The only true way to define cam installed degrees is to degree your cam to the recommended installed centerline of any given camshaft (ex: 112 deg) and move it from there.


For instance and why I find this topic misleading is, a guy goes to a dyno and finds the sweet spot with his stock roller cam and let’s say he found that advancing the cam 3 digits(notice I didn’t say degrees) on his adjustable timing gear gave him the best max horse power.

Some other guy with a similar set up advances his by 3 digits on his same cam gear and his car runs like a turd because his head was shaved a few times which will retard cam timing.

And just a clarification, each digit on the cam gear is equal to two degrees when measured.

[glhs875]

I miss hearing about that setup.. I couldn't say for sure but it was probably one of the first things that opened my eyes to cam retard on our 'poor flowing' 8v setups being worth a shot.

I miss driving that setup!! My goal with the car was to run deep in the 7's while stiil on street tires! I no longer have that car but I still have all the go-fast goodies that was on it! And also I have developed an autoimmune problem that is similar to Lupus. So until I get that problem under better control I am not able to do much of anything right now! I have some different ideas I would like to try so my health needs to get better! LOL

[2.216VTurbo]

Lol Joey, I don't think you give the members here enough credit, I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the folks running an adjustable gear centerlined their cam(s) at time of install and then went from there. What I've found with adjustable gears is that the neutral position of the gear is never the centerline of the cam. If someone just sets the gear in the middle and slaps it on, they are gonna be waaaay off of the advertised centerline. On a few different motors I've had the gears adjust themselves, it's a bummer because then you gotta go back to square one on centerlining. This intake gear readjusted itself twice in the last few thousand miles, when I centerline it AGAIN, I'm gonna drill thru the slide and the gear and run a couple 10mm bolts in there so it stays put

[Gaboon]

Lol Joey, I don't think you give the members here enough credit, I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the folks running an adjustable gear centerlined their cam(s) at time of install and then went from there. What I've found with adjustable gears is that the neutral position of the gear is never the centerline of the cam. If someone just sets the gear in the middle and slaps it on, they are gonna be waaaay off of the advertised centerline. On a few different motors I've had the gears adjust themselves, it's a bummer because then you gotta go back to square one on centerlining. This intake gear readjusted itself twice in the last few thousand miles, when I centerline it AGAIN, I'm gonna drill thru the slide and the gear and run a couple 10mm bolts in there so it stays put

You might be right Alan. I only mention it because I hardly ever see anyone mention a number, only that they moved it a certain number of degrees but like I mentioned earlier, the installed centerline with the same adjustable wheel, set straight up, with the same cam, is going to be slightly different on every engine. One could be 110 deg straight up and another 113 deg for example.
I think that a more precise way of sharing cam centerline info would be to specify what installed centerline degree works best with any given cam.
Okay, I’m done…J

[glhs875]

I see a lot of guys using terms as retarded or advanced X deg but in reality is misleading.
The cam degree is relative to the crank @TDC which is going to be slightly different in any two engines due to machining tolerances.

Cam timing will also change if the head or block is decked.
The only true way to define cam installed degrees is to degree your cam to the recommended installed centerline of any given camshaft (ex: 112 deg) and move it from there.


For instance and why I find this topic misleading is, a guy goes to a dyno and finds the sweet spot with his stock roller cam and let’s say he found that advancing the cam 3 digits(notice I didn’t say degrees) on his adjustable timing gear gave him the best max horse power.

Some other guy with a similar set up advances his by 3 digits on his same cam gear and his car runs like a turd because his head was shaved a few times which will retard cam timing.

And just a clarification, each digit on the cam gear is equal to two degrees when measured.

Good points!

[glhs875]

You might be right Alan. I only mention it because I hardly ever see anyone mention a number, only that they moved it a certain number of degrees but like I mentioned earlier, the installed centerline with the same adjustable wheel, set straight up, with the same cam, is going to be slightly different on every engine. One could be 110 deg straight up and another 113 deg for example.
I think that a more precise way of sharing cam centerline info would be to specify what installed centerline degree works best with any given cam.
Okay, I’m done…J

I think members given out the info on what cam is used and what centerline worked best for them on their combo would lead to a great information base! I like the idea!

[mopar-tech]

Same cam tips-

1) If I'm a dyno and tuning a car retard/advance cam till peak power is reached.

2) If on a track *with optimum traction* advance/retard cam till best ET is achieved. ET is the name of the game, I'd tweak the Reliant till it would break the slicks loose and then retard to soften the lower end and then lock it down.

[GLHNSLHT2]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ake&highlight=

lol, least I backed it up with some testing

[OmniLuvr]

so vigo, was the 2.5l you quoted making that power at 16psi the one you did using the tbi pistons and evo 8 intercooler in your van (well, one of them)?

[GLHS60]

You might be right Alan. I only mention it because I hardly ever see anyone mention a number, only that they moved it a certain number of degrees but like I mentioned earlier, the installed centerline with the same adjustable wheel, set straight up, with the same cam, is going to be slightly different on every engine. One could be 110 deg straight up and another 113 deg for example.
I think that a more precise way of sharing cam centerline info would be to specify what installed centerline degree works best with any given cam.
Okay, I’m done…J

Are you talking about me Joey!!!! LOL

We were, at least some of us were discussing the effects of retarding the cam in our engines.

My buddy installed it dot to dot and found increases from there, much more than expected.

It seems a common trend for our engines to respond nicely to retarding from where we start, where ever that is.

Most cams come with xxx deg advanced is why I find this fascinating.

If you have any center line input please share !!

How about some pics of your intake?? Inquiring (Alan) minds are looking for ideas!!

Thanks
Randy

- - - Updated - - -

Same cam tips-

1) If I'm a dyno and tuning a car retard/advance cam till peak power is reached.

2) If on a track *with optimum traction* advance/retard cam till best ET is achieved. ET is the name of the game, I'd tweak the Reliant till it would break the slicks loose and then retard to soften the lower end and then lock it down.

Great info as usual Gary!!

Thanks
Randy

[Vigo]

so vigo, was the 2.5l you quoted making that power at 16psi the one you did using the tbi pistons and evo 8 intercooler in your van (well, one of them)?

That was in my old aries. I posted the slips in my old $2009 Challenge build thread those years ago. It was a completely stock 89 2.5 w/ 250k from a turbo minivan i parted. I had +20 injectors and an evo8 intercooler.

I believe now that the reason my power peaked at 3700 was a combination of over-advanced cam timing and a very small exhaust. I did put a 3" exhaust on it after that but never touched the cam timing and never re-dyno'd. It was a stock gear on a stock cam but it seems that if you are mixing parts from different eras it's possible to be in a huge range like +/- 8* of cam timing based on the cam and gear you matched. I don't even know where those parts are now (in my piles) so i can't go back and verify.

I have never degreed a cam (i would like to learn!) but I feel like i HAVE learned that one reason we have such hugely inconsistent results in the 'low level' builds with these cars is because our cam timing ends up all over the map.

[2.216VTurbo]

Funny thing is Vigo just last week I was remembering that thread that part number ID'd the different cam gears and the amount of timing change that is built into each gear. I was thinking of asking if anyone remembered what thread that was in, was it 4Lbodies (Todd N's thread?) My daughters TBI LeBaron needs a little more grunt to get out into traffic and I'm thinking a little advance would help, I doubt the motor will ever see more than 4500RPMS so I think there would be no trade off shifting the power curve to the left.

[glhs875]

My Shadow has completely stock 89 turbo 2 2.2 with head studs, with unported 2 piece and unported exhaust manifold , and has run 7.06@96 in the 1/8th, and pretty sure it will go 11.0 or better in the quarter @ 5800 feet altitude, but it only weighs 2330 with me in it...

Did you lighten the hatch any?