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Thread: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

  1. #1
    Garrett booster
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    Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    I really don't know what I am missing on my own car but I just cant seem to get it right. All be it that the Omni is pretty well tweaked and the others I have done are a lot closer to stock.

    Here is the issue unless I have the pumping table maxed out from anywhere off idle say 2000-5200 the thing is lean like bad lean 15.0 to 16.5 to one part throttle cruise it dosent matter. I have checked everthing I know to check but it still seems the same has to be 98-99 percent to get even close to right fuel and it is still a bit lean for where the guide line says it should be. I don't really get it because with the other cars I have done I barley have to move the pumping table and I see a big difference. It is almost like the fuel tables are not scaled right but I have checked them a few times and they seem to be right. I don't get it.

    Here is a little info on the car.

    86 GLHT T2 electronics
    2.5
    forged pistons
    ported head 1mm over valves
    stock cam
    ported exhaust
    57 trim turbo
    83pph injectors 43.5psi
    full 3 inch exhaust

    Pretty much everthing is big except for the stock intercooler but I am only running 14psi till I get the fuel thing figured out. Any help would be great thanks Kris

  2. #2
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    Can you post your cal?
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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  3. #3
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    Things i noticed in learning and dealing with adjusting cal;
    The main thing make sure your information/specs are properly input into the afr tool. That is what the guide line is basing off of to try and create those afr settings.
    If you have used the wideband info to help adjust peftbl, make sure you uncheckbox the map in absolute (if indeed logged as psig)
    Also, you may want to adjust your fuel pressure regulator up a bit, if you are that lean, and/or adjust those fuelenrichmentfrom map WOT, and fuelenrichmentfrom map Part throttle up a bit. Or at least verify you are close to those guide lines.

    I have some similar occurence with my PumpEffTbl that it is maxed out for a good chunk of the curve.
    One of my recent changes that seemed to help out the most was, changing my fuel pressure so i have 95pph injector flow (1000cc injectors at 43.5 psi), and i left my cal thinking i still have 89 pph (1000cc inj at 38psi).

    As safety, i would say start with getting more fuel in there and tweaking back.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  4. #4
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    Hey Rob here is the cal I currently have in it.

    my omni.zip

  5. #5
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    Things i noticed in learning and dealing with adjusting cal;
    The main thing make sure your information/specs are properly input into the afr tool. That is what the guide line is basing off of to try and create those afr settings.
    If you have used the wideband info to help adjust peftbl, make sure you uncheckbox the map in absolute (if indeed logged as psig)
    Also, you may want to adjust your fuel pressure regulator up a bit, if you are that lean, and/or adjust those fuelenrichmentfrom map WOT, and fuelenrichmentfrom map Part throttle up a bit. Or at least verify you are close to those guide lines.

    I have some similar occurence with my PumpEffTbl that it is maxed out for a good chunk of the curve.
    One of my recent changes that seemed to help out the most was, changing my fuel pressure so i have 95pph injector flow (1000cc injectors at 43.5 psi), and i left my cal thinking i still have 89 pph (1000cc inj at 38psi).

    As safety, i would say start with getting more fuel in there and tweaking back.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Yeah the best I can tell I have the right info in for my setup and even with the log data the guide line on the pumping eff table wants it to be maxed out.

    I have thought about adding fuel with the regulator. I just figure it would be closer then it is first with out manually adding fuel. Guess I want to make sure it is not something I have overlooked before I do it the old fashioned way.


    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    what are you using for a fuel pressure regulator? i assume a 1:1 rise? how did you measure your base pressure of 44? i assume with the manifold reference unhooked? what do you have for a wideband? how did you generate the wideband table data you read into the cal? you're sure the injectors measured 83 lbs/hr at 3 bar?
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
    87 Charger Shelby T2 (2.4 conversion in process)

  7. #7
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    I am running an accufab regulator on a modified stock rail. Yeah it is 1:1 set the pressure with a autometer full sweep electronic fuel pressure guage have checked with a manual guage to make sure it is reading right and the reference was unhooked. I am running a innovate wide band with ssi4 box for datalogging. Log software was calibrated to the 3 bar map with our high accuracy gauge for checking nozzles. I have checked the wide band to my other wide band and they read the same. Injectors are Lucas model 01D142B same as accel, trickflow and a couple others 83lbs\hr 872cc\min at 43.5psi or 3 bar.

  8. #8
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    I did have a chance to look at your cal yet, but I would say you should disable the adaptives and see if it stays lean. The PEFTBL should have more influence that it seems to be having. I suspect that the adaptives are out and are forcing it to the lean limits.

    Instructions for dis-abling the adaptives is at the bottom of the page - http://www.boostbutton.com/turbonato...edback_details
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

  9. #9
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    Alright I will disable the adaptives and give it a go. Think I might have found something last night that was wrong. I thought I had the I had the latency chart for my injectors turns out I may not have. I just got the right one yesterday and readjusted battery offset table last night. I only had about 15 min to mess with it but just plugging the new numbers in and finding it up dead cold. It fired up smoother then it has in a long time and and was dead smooth while it warmed up at about 14.0-14.5 while before it would fire up at 10.5-11.0 till it warmed up. Once it warmed up it was pretty lean wanting to idle around 15.5-16.0. I had to quit there and didn't get a chance to drive it at all since we were leaving at 6 am for Atlanta. We will be home Monday night so I might get a chance to mess with it before we head for Topeka next week.

    I guess since I have never had to mess with the offset table that much could that be making the rest of it jacked up?



    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    How/where did you find latency table info for your specific injectors?
    I don't have that for mine, but would like it. I'm using TrickFlow TFS-89095

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  11. #11
    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    How/where did you find latency table info for your specific injectors?
    I don't have that for mine, but would like it. I'm using TrickFlow TFS-89095

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    They sent me the latency chart for my 95's when I emailed them. If I can find it, I'll share.

  12. #12
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by TFmech View Post

    Here is a little info on the car.

    86 GLHT T2 electronics
    2.5
    forged pistons
    ported head 1mm over valves
    stock cam
    ported exhaust
    57 trim turbo
    83pph injectors 43.5psi
    full 3 inch exhaust

    Pretty much everthing is big except for the stock intercooler but I am only running 14psi till I get the fuel thing figured out. Any help would be great thanks Kris
    Just a thought,...
    You did not mention which head.
    I found i had all the warmup curves for the 782 when i have a 287 head.
    If yours is the opposite, maybe that would cause some leaness. Mine was too rich.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  13. #13
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Way lean unless I have the pumping effencincy table maxed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    Just a thought,...
    You did not mention which head.
    I found i had all the warmup curves for the 782 when i have a 287 head.
    If yours is the opposite, maybe that would cause some leaness. Mine was too rich.
    Well I had to call a couple places fiveofuelinjection gave me the numbers for my injectors. I am running a 287 head.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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