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Thread: 93 2.4L Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

  1. #21
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    The rearend will be a Ford 8.8 IRS with pushrod suspension as well. I figured I should be able to get that designed while I work on building the front. I've worked out the desired specs but that's about it.
    Thief! Planning the same setup for my daytona as well. Love to bounce ideas off your head on what you plan to do back there. From the coilovers I have I too will be using pushrod type suspension as well, but likely in a different way than yours.

    Regardless, def subscribed and love to see the progress.

  2. #22
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Nice of JT (no, the one with hair) to give you his rims for the project. He probably wasn't using them anyway tho right?

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  3. #23
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    The rearend will be a Ford 8.8 IRS with pushrod suspension as well. I figured I should be able to get that designed while I work on building the front. I've worked out the desired specs but that's about it.
    After watching several aluminum pumpkins from '00+ Cobras crack under moderate power, I'd seriously consider taking the weight penalty and use a cast iron unit from a Lincoln MKVIII. I haven't kept up with any newer versions, perhaps they've fixed that issue with later aluminum units.
    “If the people of the nation understood our banking and monetary system, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford

  4. #24
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Quote Originally Posted by 86Shelby View Post
    After watching several aluminum pumpkins from '00+ Cobras crack under moderate power, I'd seriously consider taking the weight penalty and use a cast iron unit from a Lincoln MKVIII. I haven't kept up with any newer versions, perhaps they've fixed that issue with later aluminum units.
    Grab the units out of the 04+ Explorer/Mountaineer. A lot of them came with Trac-Loc stock LSD. That center section was said to be the best one out there now. Very wide rear mounting, the iron units have a double mount up front with a flimsy rear mount directly in the center of the diff cover.

    Alos, the Truck unit will be a 31 spline. Many mustangs received 29 spline units, BUT anything can be swapped if you buy a new differential anyway.

  5. #25
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Nice of JT (no, the one with hair) to give you his rims for the project. He probably wasn't using them anyway tho right?
    Nah, his are too skinny. To be honest, and no insult to JT with hair or anyone else running RPF1s, but they really aren't my favorite rim. What they are is the lightest and best looking for the money. Every time I saw something I really liked it was close to $1000 a wheel......not quite in the budget. I'm still not excited about a silver wheel on a dark blue car but maybe they'll grow on me. But for a 17x10 weighing 17.25lbs you really can't beat the price and they aren't hideous, just not my favorite.

    Quote Originally Posted by 86Shelby View Post
    After watching several aluminum pumpkins from '00+ Cobras crack under moderate power, I'd seriously consider taking the weight penalty and use a cast iron unit from a Lincoln MKVIII. I haven't kept up with any newer versions, perhaps they've fixed that issue with later aluminum units.
    Quote Originally Posted by turismolover22 View Post
    Grab the units out of the 04+ Explorer/Mountaineer. A lot of them came with Trac-Loc stock LSD. That center section was said to be the best one out there now. Very wide rear mounting, the iron units have a double mount up front with a flimsy rear mount directly in the center of the diff cover.

    Alos, the Truck unit will be a 31 spline. Many mustangs received 29 spline units, BUT anything can be swapped if you buy a new differential anyway.
    I am using a 31 spline explorer unit. Maybe it will break but for now I'll put it in and see. The 31 spline axles are monster compared to the TD stuff and is what's used in the cobras. The explorer has a different seal diameter but it is larger so I can get cobra axles and put a shim collar on for the seal. I haven't quite decided what I want to do yet for the axles but they will most likely have 930 ends on them. Another possiblilty is welding the 930 ends onto the stock explorer axles and then figuring out the rest. Not sure yet.

  6. #26
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    During my learning and research I found it very easy to come across definitions and calculations for all aspects of the suspension geometry. Finding actual starting points, on the other hand, was very challenging. I know every project is different but it was quite difficult to even find a good place to start. So here is what I've designed the suspension to and will begin with. I'll throw in some explanations of why I came up with the number where I can to a: maybe help someone else out who is reading this and b: to help me remember why I did it. I have no idea right now if these numbers are going to work well but it is my best educated guess of where to start and I can let you know how it actually works in a few years. If anyone with more experience then I sees any grave errors please chime in with an explanation. Thanks.


    Front suspension specs:


    Ride Height - 4.5" because a speed bump is 4" though I will still be doing my best to avoid all of them.


    Travel - 2.5" in bounce and rebound. No real scientific reason, it just seemed like a good place to start when reading about other people’s builds.


    Static Roll center - Right now it is sitting approximately 3.06" above the ground. My goal was to have 1" of RC movement per 1" of body travel and I didn't want it to transition past the ground plane. The 1:1 goal came from the attempt to maintain similar jacking forces throughout the whole suspension travel to keep the handling predictable. I was able to achieve an average of 1.04"/1" of bounce and 1.12"/1" of rebound. This may change slightly by the end but for the most part should stay in this range.


    Scrub Radius – Scrub was a hard one. The information is so vague that I almost had to take the first bit of solid numbers I could find. There are a million sites explaining what it is and a half million saying some is good but not too much but no one says how much is some. I finally found a source stating Carroll smith uses 10% of the wheel width and a guy name Joe Cheng says 5%. Well to keep the KPI from getting bigger than I wanted I settled on 1.24” with a 10” wide wheel.

    King Pin/Steering Angle Inclination (KPI or SAI) – This is a big compromise as it has to do mostly with packaging while trying to get the scrub radius you want. The unfortunate part is KPI will add camber as the wheel turns in both directions. Great when it is the inside wheel but not so good when it’s the outside. Therefore you don’t want to large of a KPI so I settled on 10° to get the scrub radius down to 1.24”. 12° would have put me just under 1” of scrub radius but I chose to sacrifice some scrub for less KPI. Good choice? I have no idea.

    Caster Angle – Caster will combat KPI as it will subtract camber from the outside wheel and add to the inside wheel. The scrub radius and mechanical trail set by the caster contribute to the self centering of the wheels. Too much caster resulting in too much mechanical trail can result in a car that is hard to turn. This is one reason you also don’t want to much KPI. It seems that a caster angle of about half your KPI is a good place to start so I currently have a zero point of 6° with +/- 2° of adjustment. Hopefully that will be enough.

    Camber – I’m going to start with -1.5° of static camber with an adjustability of +1.5°/-2.0°. I think this will be fine to play around with.

    I still need to run through some more dynamic geometry tests but I don’t see these numbers changing all that much. Once again I am really just making my best educated guess. The true test will be once the car is together and drivable. I may fluke it off or find myself making new parts to get the car handling how I want.

    Also, here are a couple shots of the intake and header. The intake (if I can pull it off) will have a carbon inlet to a water to air IC that goes into a carbon plenum to tapered ITBs. I think this will be one of or the most challenging part of the build. I’m excited to try it and here’s to hoping I don’t spend too much money failing. The header will be 1 7/8” thin wall SS with my own version of a quick spool valve. I don’t like any of the ones I’ve seen since they don’t utilize the advantages of a twin scroll exhaust keeping the pulses separated. I am going to make my valve in the collector so the division is maintained under high boost. It also will not have any additional hardware in the flow of one of the scrolls like the butterfly valve types do. The plan is to control it with a servo motor so I can write a spool curve in the ecu and tune it for smooth operation.









    Last edited by turboshad; 07-13-2017 at 11:23 AM.

  7. #27
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Great stuff, DJ!! I always enjoy your builds! Once again...living vicariously...oh how I wish I could do composite work where I'm at!

  8. #28
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Thanks for all the thoughts DJ. I think that intake will be easier to make than you think though.

  9. #29
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad
    I am using a 31 spline explorer unit. Maybe it will break but for now I'll put it in and see. The 31 spline axles are monster compared to the TD stuff and is what's used in the cobras. The explorer has a different seal diameter but it is larger so I can get cobra axles and put a shim collar on for the seal. I haven't quite decided what I want to do yet for the axles but they will most likely have 930 ends on them. Another possiblilty is welding the 930 ends onto the stock explorer axles and then figuring out the rest. Not sure yet.
    I will agree the 31 spline units are outrageous. I even thought about dropping down to a 29 spline since I dont feel my power goal will warrant a 31 spline. But if youre going to build it, over build it right?

    Interesting to see what you might do for the rear. I have a few designs Ive planned out but have one in particular Ill likely use.

  10. #30
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Subscribed

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  11. #31
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    I dunno DJ, I think if I were you I would put some more thought and planning into this.
    Mike Marra
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  12. #32
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Quote Originally Posted by contraption22 View Post
    I dunno DJ, I think if I were you I would put some more thought and planning into this.
    That goes against my "screw it just do it" motto.

  13. #33
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor rx2mazda's Avatar
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    DJ - Says it's cheating to go automatic..........starts RWD Shadow build.


  14. #34
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Why not just build a red 69 Camaro and sell it for 500 grand to some rich geezer at Barrett-Jackson?

  15. #35
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Quote Originally Posted by rx2mazda View Post
    DJ - Says it's cheating to go automatic..........starts RWD Shadow build.

    $5 bucks says he decides to LS swap it before he's done.
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  16. #36
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    I thought this would be the most fun to drive. Automatics are still boring. Luckily this will still be a manual transmission.........sequentially shifted................with possibility of ECU control..........with paddles............wait a sec.

    Whatever, I'm Canadian....it's my right....but I'm sorry.

  17. #37
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Eh?

  18. #38
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    There it is! Apologizing for no reason!
    Doesn't get more Canadian than that! My wife does the same thing.

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  19. #39
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Whoops!!

    Lost my train of thought.

    Sorry about that...

    Thanks
    Randy


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  20. #40
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    Re: 93 2.4l Shadow Part 2 : Project Shadicorn

    Quote Originally Posted by contraption22 View Post
    $5 bucks says he decides to LS swap it before he's done.
    That would be pretty fun!

    “If the people of the nation understood our banking and monetary system, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford

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