Singh grooves

[chromguy]

I was reading the patent on Singh grooves in the combustion chamber, it makes lots of sense but does it really work?

Specifically with our heads

[tryingbe]

Had MPGmike head on my car with the groove. Didn't notice any changes in MPG. Sold the head along with the 2.5L

[chromguy]

Thanks Harry for the data point

[cordes]

Had MPGmike head on my car with the groove. Didn't notice any changes in MPG. Sold the head along with the 2.5L

Notorious scammer and snake oil salesman MPGmike.

[ajakeski]

If the groove made that big of a difference, I think you would see a lot of heads with them.
I don't see a lot of heads with grooves.

[cordes]

If the groove made that big of a difference, I think you would see a lot of heads with them.
I don't see a lot of heads with grooves.

With all the efforts OEMs are putting into eeking out MPGs you would see them on new cars if they did anything at all.

[chromguy]

With all the efforts OEMs are putting into eeking out MPGs you would see them on new cars if they did anything at all.

Yes they are working on improvements but only certain projects get funded and usually it is those favoured by the big brass. I work for a large manufacturing company (over 2 Billion ) and I see this more than I would like. Also big companies will spend a significant amount of time to avoid paying royalties to others and focus on reduced cost. Personally I have looked for expired patents to assist in product development.

All I am saying is they may not have tried the grooves.... and may not want to.

[tryingbe]

Here's what it's look inside

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy_yaAOKjA8

[ajakeski]

The groove is intended to direct the very last of the air fuel mixture to the spark plug area and leave as little unburnt fuel in the chamber as possible each cycle.
It's probably great for a naturally aspirated engine, but here are a couple reasons I don't see it working in our engines:

1. The Chrysler 2.2 and 2.5 turbo engines use the Speed-Density system to control the fuel injection system. Speed-Density is like a best guess at what the fuel requirements of an engine are at any given load and usually results in the engine running rich. Rich enough that there will be more unburnt fuel each combustion cycle than the groove can channel to the spark area.

2. Increased cylinder pressures and heat from turbo charging increase the risk for detonation. Irregularities in the combustion champer can create hot spots where pre-ignition can occur more readily.

Disclaimer: I'm not an engineer, so I may be completely wrong.

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2...rch-holy-grail

[turbovanman²]

I tried them but also changed too many things, lol.


http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/se...archid=2571697

[Force Fed Mopar]

I think compression and piston-to-head clearance play a deciding role in it's effectiveness. Neither of which is right in our engines for it to be effective IMO.

[chromguy]

I tried them but also changed too many things, lol.


http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/se...archid=2571697

Turbovanman, your link is not working...at least for me

[chromguy]

I think compression and piston-to-head clearance play a deciding role in it's effectiveness. Neither of which is right in our engines for it to be effective IMO.

OK I can see that if the piston-to-head gap is large, what is stock? I read it was on the order of 0.080"

[ajakeski]

Based on the deep dish of the pistons and the large combustion chamber of the head, I would say the gap is pretty large. There is not much quench area on the swirl heads.

[chromguy]

Based on the deep dish of the pistons and the large combustion chamber of the head, I would say the gap is pretty large. There is not much quench area on the swirl heads.

Very good point, thank you

[GLHS60]

I've built a few engines with approx. .035 squish.

As our head gaskets compress at approx. .068 this means the pistons must be "proud", as in protruding out of the block deck at TDC.

Thanks
Randy

[turbovanman²]

Turbovanman, your link is not working...at least for me

Sorry, it timed out. Just put "singh grooves" at the search bar up top and the threads will show up.