Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
that neon rear suspension looks very cost effective - at least from a manufacturer's point of view
even if it does look like it's made outta some twigs (or because)
Fully independent yes, but some kind of anti-roll mechanism has to be a part of it too, right?
John Laing
"The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
-- Alexis de Tocqueville
"One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
--Ayn Rand
"To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that."
-- Justice Antonin Scalia
The only advantages to a fully independent suspension on a FWD are slightly better ride, NVH, weight (to a point), better dynamic chassis control, and bragging rights...maybe more room to route exhaust, etc. In some instances it can help performance, but from an autocross or road course perspective the twist beam and semi-trailing arm suspension set-ups have proven to be just as effective and can perform just as well or better than a full IRS. Remember, once you jack the inside wheel off the ground, no matter what type of suspension, you have 100% weight transfer. This will happen to ANY FWD car with a high degree of rear anti-roll stiffness...which most high performance type FWD cars do to help front traction and turn-in.
stone cold stock the shelby charger suspension worked great when still only 3-4 years old
really good rear shocks were a must
many were already dead by then
I didn't have issues with it wanting to rotate at anything under 50 mph going around a decient curve in an on ramp
but turn left or right at speed onto any side street on 3 wheels - yeah no problem
.. unless your sitting in the back and not wearing a seat belt
lolololol
my buddy ... the thump he made as he hit the driver's side rear interior panel ...
though I did learn to keep the tires with the most tread on the back as the worn ones will let the rear rotate really badly in the rain or wet as there's simply not enough weight to keep the car in place without the extra tread to grip with
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
Harry, From a knowledge point I'm glad you welded your suspension, proved it would crack and you didn't crash!!!
As the L body is semi independent, the U channel is the part that must be able to twist.
Welding solid prevents it from twisting, and that left the ends vulnerable to cracking as they weren't designed to twist.
Some folks U bolt flat steel to the U channel to allow some twist, especially if the U bolts are strategically placed.
EG: Fewer U bolts, spaced farther apart, more twist, many U bolts close together, less/no twist.
The rear anti roll characteristics can be fine tuned by adding/removing U bolts.
Same thing might be accomplished with welding the flat stock, many close welds= cracking, fewer welds, further apart, ...
Due to the design, there are very strong forces acting on the channel that joins the semi independent trailing arms during driving and cornering. The channel needs to be able to twist somewhat, but as mentioned, the twisting can be tuned.
SHADOW!!!!!
A while back Rob decided to lighten his rear trailing arm assembly. I cautioned him about these very strong forces acting on the channel, but he assured me his calculations that came from an Engineering background were valid.
Everyone knows the L body assembly was overbuilt and could be lightened extensively and that's what he did. He might post some pics, but from memory its full of holes!!.
He later bragged about transporting a few engine blocks and a bunch of other things in his Charger with no ill effects.
So, in the end, Harry has proven Shadow to be correct, lighten everything up concerning the assembly, allow it to twist, no problem.
Remove the ability to twist and even the overbuilt stock assembly will crack on each side of the now nontwistable assembly.
Thanks
Randy
PS:
Anyone know the interchangeability of L body rear suspensions? A guy on another forum has a damaged 1988 Horizon wants to know if a 1983 Horizon rear suspension assembly will fit. He posted it looks similar but not the exact same, and I cant find any info or pics.
There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
Randy Hicks
86 GLHS60
86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
89 Turbo Minivan
83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Yeah yeah, I posted that way too fast with Not enough info;
My post was in reference to my own experience with the Charger. The missing info is the Charger has Slowes tubular cross member and DJ's tubular heim joint A-arms. I'm running 350"/lb springs up front and stock shortened springs/ shocks rear. With that combo and my modded rear trailing axle and the addition of the PB 1" rear anti sway bar, the Charger Destroys the handling characteristics of its former self.
Add to this the fact that I am comparing the Charger With front anti sway bar vs it now Without!
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
Bro, ixnay on the ics pay. Otherwise Someone is bound to have a hit Say it Fay!
Know what I say!?
Oh, and by the way;
That was 4 engine blocks and 3 cranks and a bunch of odds and ends like TQ plate couple of heads ect ect + my wife and myself with luggage for the wknd. + Don't forget the spare/jack and I even think I squeezed and air tank in there.
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
This evolved into a great thread.
Not saying anything new, but on the track with stock GLHS spring rates and anti-sway bars but with Koni coil overs, I found that rear induced oversteer, the rate of rear rotation, was critical to be able to get the front wheels pointed straight, straight down the next straight, as early as possible, so that they were pulling the car and NOT steering it. Rear ride height and tire pressures were key puzzle parts in getting the car to rotate at the right rate, not so fast as to force me to slow the car down on the entries and not so slow as to delay going WOT. Credit to Craig St Pierre who taught me "get the wheels straight before you mat it."
John Laing
"The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
-- Alexis de Tocqueville
"One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
--Ayn Rand
"To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that."
-- Justice Antonin Scalia
I know this is a slightly older thread but tons of fwd cars used and still use semi-independent rear suspension.
Bryan
86 GLHS #161, 2016 Impala
SDAC National Member, SDAC Buckeye Chapter Member
A man has got to know his limitations.....
On my GLHS Omni autocross car, I used 1" rear bar, 1-1/8" front bar....
the mopar autocross springs with a coil cut off all round. With stock Koni's.
I adjusted handling with tire pressures and shock adjustment.
Won a lot of autocrosses!
Great stuff for great cars! Poly engine mounts and bushings at: http://www.polybushings.com
OR leave it on and see if you like it that way first. You can always take the stock one off if you think the over steer is too much.
Great stuff for great cars! Poly engine mounts and bushings at: http://www.polybushings.com
I ran into a similar situation with my Reliant-
Installed the rear control arm from my old '86 Daytona into the car which had been boxed in. Problem being the Reliant is far lighter in the back than a Daytona! On a twisty back road the car would grip... grip... grip..and then.. ROTATE!
Did a complete 180 degree spin with utter lack of control, car gave no warning at all. Once one tire breaks loose its party over!
Taught me a good lesson and by the grace of God did not cost me a car or the life of someone coming the other direction.
Gary
Working on clearing the decks.