Relentless 2016

[mopar-tech]

Think I found the problem with the Rampage, no wonder cylinder three was a little upset.

Pulled the module last night, just a standard MP GLHS stage II. I'm going to rework the spark curves for something more suted for a g-head and make the overboost protection a bit hair trigger. The Rampage isn't going to have an intercooler so there isn't much margin for error in my opinion.

Swapping out the overboost can for a small unit too, won't be able to go much over 14 anyways if something goes wrong.

[Ondonti]

Looking at several web sites, it is highly dependent on what type of rings you are using. It appears that if you are using a moly faced ring, a 320 grit is recommended. Chrome would require a courser grit.

Here is one of the sources I found: http://www.enginehones.com/technical.html

Yes, I only bought a grit (220ish) that was happy with chrome rings. Same grit will leave a surface that tears up moly rings before they seat. I don't have a ball hone though, I have a 3 stone. I think the ball hone makes the bore look nice but its hiding defects since it follows nooks and crannies instead of going over the top of them and highlighting them. Just because it looks nice doesn't mean it is. If you hate how it looks with a 3 stone, thats a sign maybe you need to clean up the bore a little more seriously.

[mopar-tech]

I go by leakdown and oil consumption results, ball hones have served me well.

[thedon809]

I think of its bad enough that a ball hone won't do it, it should probably be bored out. I've only built a couple engines though.

[mopar-tech]

I think of its bad enough that a ball hone won't do it, it should probably be bored out.

This.

If the walls are that out of shape a three stone isn't going to be of much help. I do agree with the theory though.

A LOT of engine builders do a final hone with a ball unit, I have heard a lot of different reasons why from quick ring seating to the way the metal is "folded over" rather than "torn" on a microscopic level.

At any rate... my track record using a ball hone is pretty much 100% for ring seal, life and low oil consumption after more than 25 years of use.

The 440 in my GTX has been assembled since 1991-1992 and one of the first ones I used a ball hone and it is still kicking --- to this day.

[GLHS60]

Yes, I only bought a grit (220ish) that was happy with chrome rings. Same grit will leave a surface that tears up moly rings before they seat. I don't have a ball hone though, I have a 3 stone. I think the ball hone makes the bore look nice but its hiding defects since it follows nooks and crannies instead of going over the top of them and highlighting them. Just because it looks nice doesn't mean it is. If you hate how it looks with a 3 stone, thats a sign maybe you need to clean up the bore a little more seriously.

I'm curious how many sets of Moly rings you tore up in figuring this out??

Thanks
Randy

- - - Updated - - -

This.

If the walls are that out of shape a three stone isn't going to be of much help. I do agree with the theory though.

A LOT of engine builders do a final hone with a ball unit, I have heard a lot of different reasons why from quick ring seating to the way the metal is "folded over" rather than "torn" on a microscopic level.

At any rate... my track record using a ball hone is pretty much 100% for ring seal, life and low oil consumption after more than 25 years of use.

The 440 in my GTX has been assembled since 1991-1992 and one of the first ones I used a ball hone and it is still kicking --- to this day.

I'm with you on ball hones, I always have great success with them!!

Thanks
Randy

[turboshelbys]

I don't want a distributor, hence coil near plug or coil on plug being my two options.

Lots of guys making far more power than I'm planning (Honda, Toyota, Ford, Benz etc) I'm not worried about availability of coil packs that can do the job.

I am using cop in my Daytona(4.7l jeep ones), been up to 35psi with zero problems.

[Reaper1]

COP/CNP has the benefit of being able to run higher rpm for longer periods of time under more harsh conditions in the combustion chamber because you have more dwell time per cylinder to charge the coil. If the system is working correctly and the parts are good, then with all things being equal, an engine *should* be able to run better under those conditions.

From what I've heard the GM truck CNP coils with the heat sinks on them are the best to get. IIRC they also are "self contained" compared to other units that I think require some sort of feedback in order to not burn up (I honestly can't remember the exact details right now).

Look at what is being used in endurance racing...not drag racing.

I would think that possibly part of the reason you see distributor conversions, etc. is because of the ignition systems they are using and the very large amounts of power they are sending through the ignition.

Gary, how fast does that MSD 7A2 chew up plugs? With those types of systems they send a LOT of current through. They WILL ignite just about anything (which I think is why they choose to use them), but at the cost of much increase wear and tear.

[mopar-tech]

COP/CNP has the benefit of being able to run higher rpm for longer periods of time under more harsh conditions in the combustion chamber because you have more dwell time per cylinder to charge the coil.

Yes, the increase in dwell time is a very attractive bonus.

Gary, how fast does that MSD 7A2 chew up plugs? With those types of systems they send a LOT of current through. They WILL ignite just about anything (which I think is why they choose to use them), but at the cost of much increase wear and tear.

Can't say, the system was only used twice and then both times it was on the dyno.

I got the rude coil too, advertising stated with the chosen coil and the 7AL-2 close to 2 amps of juice would be delivered to the plug.

When the car was running I stayed far from the ignition system, that would hurt... real bad.

[GLHS60]

[QUOTE=Reaper1;1097490

Look at what is being used in endurance racing...not drag racing.

I would think that possibly part of the reason you see distributor conversions, etc. is because of the ignition systems they are using and the very large amounts of power they are sending through the ignition.

[/QUOTE]

Probably right about the current, NASCAR switched to CNP, Top Fuel, not yet!!

Thanks
Randy

[mopar-tech]

Four slugs installed in the Rampage, progress!

Need to get the head and pan back on tomorrow after work.

Work sucked today, sucks all the life out of you at times.

[83scamp]

Work sucked today, sucks all the life out of you at times.

Amen to that!!!

There are days I wonder why I even bother going in...

[MiniMopar]

Nice to see you at it again, Gary. Good luck!

[mopar-tech]

Rampage is up and running!

Installed the pan and head tonight, replaced the big can wastegate actuator with a small one, re-did some of the vacuum harness and fired it up. I still need to do a coolant flush, pump out all the old gas in the tank, re-install the air cleaner assembly and install a roller cam but its running. Let it idle mostly for 20 minutes and set the timing. Faith is happy to hear it going. Engine has a soft clacking noise, I think it is the flat slider... Been a real long time since I have heard a 2.2 with one in it! See if the noise goes away when the roller is installed.

Take a stab at the rest tomorrow and road test. Be nice to put this to bed for several weeks so I can focus on other things.

Someone asked me about hoods as garage art- The red hood is from my '89 Shelby Daytona, its being flanked on the left by a "Six Pack" hood I use to run on the GTX with the original hood to the right. The two black hoods are from a GLH Omni and GLHS Charger.

Gary

[2.216VTurbo]

Looking at the crosshatch finish you put in the bores, I'd say the hone you use is finer then even my finest one, I've only re-ringed or re-pistoned 5-6 motors but I think I've been leaving them rougher than necessary. I always used WD 40 as the cutting fluid, I'll definitely use engine oil next time tho

[Reaper1]

I have read a few articles describing the process of re-ringing (possibly new pistons, but same size) and engine and NOT using a hone. Of course you have to use the correct rings otherwise it'll just be a smoke show with no power. I know the one article was in the motorcycle realm. From what I remember it's claimed that the rings seat faster and seal better, plus there's less overall wear on the engine because you aren't sending all the excess metal through it (even though we use filters some gets by).

Thoughts? Comments?

[mopar-tech]

I have read a few articles describing the process of re-ringing (possibly new pistons, but same size) and engine and NOT using a hone.

If you were using low tension rings and just swapping out due to loss of tension then there is merit in the idea.

Usually we re-ring due to piston failure or damaged rings and don't have that option in my opinion.

[mopar-tech]

Road tested the Rampage after doing coolant flush, draining all the old gas, swapping in a roller cam and installing the air cleaner.

It may have an electrical problem. Once back from a road test it stalled and some items started chattering under the hood like there was a bad ground. I swapped out the power module and checked all the connections and it didn't do it again. With the small wastegate can hooked to the intake it only has 5 pounds of boost which is just fine for now.

Speedo stopped working on road test it and it has the most gawd awfull number of rattles and squeaks, Faith loves it of course.

sigh.

[2.216VTurbo]

If you have a woman that loves a Rampage, shes a keeper In 20 years of driving mine I don't think I've ever gotten a compliment about it from a woman, maybe yours is just better

[83scamp]

If you have a woman that loves a Rampage, shes a keeper In 20 years of driving mine I don't think I've ever gotten a compliment about it from a woman, maybe yours is just better

Amen to that. My wife accepts my infactuation with my Scamp, but hasn't went with me for a drive in it in about 15 years...

In fact, the last time she probably rode in it, was when we were dating in high school... So, it's been more like 25 years...