520 Transmission Oil for my DD

[chromguy]

I install a drain plug and overfilled with Castrol GTX that was hiding in the shop. The shifting is poor when cold about 32F cold, better but not good when warm. On the weekend I will drain again, and fill with the Redline MTL.

[GLHS60]

You can't beat experimenting to gain first hand knowledge about what works in you case!!

Thanks
Randy

[chromguy]

You can't beat experimenting to gain first hand knowledge about what works in you case!!

Thanks
Randy

LOL, did you know I am a scientist? experimenting is what I do!

[GLHS60]

Well don't stop at the first experiment, the drain plug is there for a reason!!

Like Gus used to say, "I'm no scientist, but my friend Akton is" LOL

I gotta go mix some engine oils...

Thanks
Randy

[Lotashelbys]

From what I have seen in pulling apart our transmissions is that whenever the fluid is red in color they are not happy. Most that have been run with an ATF of some sort have been pretty ugly. The fork pads look "burned up" or melted,the intermediate shaft races have been very pitted,even 90+ hardened races,and the gear teeth have had a wear pattern in them that has "gone thru" the outer layer. I would suggest against any ATFs. Now another issue I myself have had is with Redline MTL. I switched to in an abour 5 cars in the 2010 time frame after hearing how much better it was from many people. I had a trans that I put about 50K on with regular oil and then switched over to MTL. After about a summer with MTL it took out a 90+ hardened bearing race completely. I have never seen one this bad in an 90+ trans. It looked like most 555 shafts do when they fail. I also pulled another one down that MTL was ran in for that summer and it was very pitted on that race. Now im not saying they were perfect before MTL was ran but they never made a noises on whines until it was ran for a small period of time. Im not gonna say not to run it but I will never run it myself again or put it in any car I work on for anyone else. Another smaller issue is with Mobil1 high mileage 5/30 synthetic. That has never led to a race failure and the gear teeth look much better when this has been run for some time on tear-downs but it does not let the brass stop rings work as well as a non-synthetic. It seems to work better n the 89+ 1-2 fiber synchros but not the brass. I have had the best luck with shifting with standard old Mobil 5000 5w30. Not only does the brass like it better but any tear-down with running it for some time has shown no wear that has been out of the ordinary for me.

Not saying what to run here but this is what I have found over 15 years of running these trans and using different oils. I have probably looked inside at least 200 of these trans now...

[Spraynlog]

I would agree. I'm worried that the lack of various additives in current oil is probably effecting our transmissions.

I looked at the Ed Peter's tranny video, and noticed he stressed that 1500 ppm of zinc in the oil really helps. His info was from 2011, so I looked up some more current tests of oil on PQIA.com, and found the Chevron Delo diesel oil had one of the highest content of zinc. http://www.pqiamerica.com/May%202013/chevrondelo.htm Since I'm not in a real cold climate area, I'll try it in my a523 once I get it back together. Gary D. also noted that 15w/40 was a recommended fill by Mopar.

[chromguy]

Lotashelby,
Wow I was just about to change to MTL and now not so much. I think I will return the MTL.
Tonight I tried straight 30 weight as per Randy's suggestion, after a 15 minute drive around town it seems shift well.
Castrol GTX 5-30 did not work well for me

[tryingbe]

Let me toss another candidate into this list.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...n-fluid-5w-30/

[ajakeski]

I ran Synchromesh in a high mile 525 that made noise going into second gear when it was cold.
After about a week on synchromesh, the noise stopped and I never had another issue with the transmission. Even after several autocross events. I'm no advocating for the "Fix in a bottle" but it helped. I'll probably open up that transmission this winter to see if there is an issue or if it was just something stuck.
I've run Redline MTL in a few without any issues, but I haven't opened them up to look inside. After reading Jackson's post, I'm rethinking MTL.

[135sohc]

Let me toss another candidate into this list.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...n-fluid-5w-30/

I ran that on and off a few times. Shift quality wise it acted no differently than plain old 5w30 engine oil and it seemed like there was more metallic sparkle in the oil when it drained out… Even with regular oil I get a bit of metallic sparkle but noticeably less than with the amsoil product.

Of the purpose made synthetics, special additives and other ----tails of experimentation I have run in my stuff. I always come back to plain old 5w30 or in the colder months I switch to 5w20. Every second or third engine oil change I drain the transmission and refill with fresh conventional oil via the reverse light switch hole until its just at the bottom of the pretend chrysler oil filler hole. Reinstall the plug and add a few more ounces through the top. Too much oil inside can be just as bad as not having enough.

[chromguy]

Too much oil inside can be just as bad as not having enough.

What is the symptom of too much oil?

[135sohc]

Under long term sustained usage you might see damage from bearings that look burned and the gear teeth looking like they ran without oil to keep them lubricated and cooled. no outward symptoms immediately.

It falls under the same idea that too much oil in the engine can lead to aeration of the oil can be applied here. Bearings and gears are not made to be run submerged under most circumstances. The factory oil fill/inspection hole level guidance leaves maybe the bottom third of the reverse idler gear submerged in oil so the input shaft and countershaft are just a bit less than that since they sit slightly higher. General industry guidelines suggest no more than 50% of a roller bearing when mounted on a horizontal shaft (just like our stuff) be submerged in an oil bath continuously. That would equate to filling the unit until the input shaft was halfway submerged. That is a lot of wasted oil and most certainly will get aerated.

[chromguy]

Under long term sustained usage you might see damage from bearings that look burned and the gear teeth looking like they ran without oil to keep them lubricated and cooled. no outward symptoms immediately.

It falls under the same idea that too much oil in the engine can lead to aeration of the oil can be applied here. Bearings and gears are not made to be run submerged under most circumstances. The factory oil fill/inspection hole level guidance leaves maybe the bottom third of the reverse idler gear submerged in oil so the input shaft and countershaft are just a bit less than that since they sit slightly higher. General industry guidelines suggest no more than 50% of a roller bearing when mounted on a horizontal shaft (just like our stuff) be submerged in an oil bath continuously. That would equate to filling the unit until the input shaft was halfway submerged. That is a lot of wasted oil and most certainly will get aerated.

Thank you for the explanation, this makes sense. Why do you feel people overfill?

[mopar-tech]

Thank you for the explanation, this makes sense. Why do you feel people overfill?

Human nature? If full is good more is better!?!

[chromguy]

Human nature? If full is good more is better!?!

LOL, That was a thought, I had as well. I was hoping for a technical reason.....

[GLHS60]

It was Ed Peters who recommended overfilling to help with the int. shaft bearing surface issue.

As the int. shaft is hollow, the bearing gets oiled from the 5th gear end, and lube flow is marginal.

He explained the oil feeder is able to perform its job much better when the trans oil level is elevated somewhat.

I have no proof other than what Ed explained and it made sense to me, given one of his jobs was failure analysis.

Thanks
Randy

[83rampage]

Has anyone ever looked into hydraulic oil used in tractor transmissions? My understanding of hydraulic oil is it is similar to engine oil, but a better additive package suited for gears/roller bearings.

[chromguy]

I just watch a video of Ed Peters and what he says sounds reasonable. I going to have to think about all the information. Not straight forward to say the least.

[GLHS60]

Which video did you watch??

Thanks
Randy

[tryingbe]

Has anyone ever looked into hydraulic oil used in tractor transmissions? My understanding of hydraulic oil is it is similar to engine oil, but a better additive package suited for gears/roller bearings.

You may want to read this for some technical stuff.

http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf


My Volvo manual transmission uses 1161745.