MeanMini 's cooling system anomaly: coolant push to overflow

[wheming]

Yesterday had a nice test of nearly an entire 1/4 mile run. I wanted to get some data from a longer run at wot to see if the 20psi modified cap would keep the push to a minimum.
Well, at times i saw over 22psi and did see it flutter, to indicate the cap lifting .
Today i checked the coolant overflow and it was higher than normal.
I have an appointment with a shop to help price out a custom radiator. I'm anxious to see what they think. Especially since i didn't tell them its for a dodge caravan!

[jefo]

I had the same issue, the coolant overflow bottle would fill up. You want a return spring on your radiator cap.
I went from a stant 16psi (no return spring) to a Moroso racing 63316 cap and haven't had a problem since.
Well except for the time I blew a head gasket.

[black86glhs]

Its hard to believe it could be that and NOT be confirmed through a block test that checked for combustion gas in the coolant.
It was checked 4 times, and combustion gas was negative in coolant.

Sorry, I didn't reread the thread and forgot you already addressed this.

[wheming]

I had the same issue, the coolant overflow bottle would fill up. You want a return spring on your radiator cap.
I went from a stant 16psi (no return spring) to a Moroso racing 63316 cap and haven't had a problem since.
Well except for the time I blew a head gasket.

Interesting, because i did try this and still had the same occurance. Except with that cap, the coolant system always has pressure on it.
I may try and test it again with the 18psi cap with the return spring.

[wheming]

Sorry, I didn't reread the thread and forgot you already addressed this.

Its all good.

[wheming]

This is the reply i received from CSR today, my questions mostly regarded the impellar shape/direction of blades.


The 922 Pump will flow more than enough coolant in its present form. Too much flow is a problem that can create overheating

because the coolant does not stay in the radiator long enough to heat exchange. The pump has proven to be very

reliable over the years even in street applications. We have found the most pump failures occur because of improper installation

or wiring.



(Paul)

[contraption22]

We have found the most pump failures occur because of improper installation

or wiring.

The above statement is industry standard.

[mopar-tech]

The above statement is industry standard.

standard boilerplate b.s.

Its not our wonderful product but the monkey who installed it!

[wheming]

Tested out the CSR waterpump at SDAC26. Was very cautious and worried due to the stories from James Reeves and seeing the impellar design error.
But, it seemed to work ok, and i wax able to make some good passes without having a coolant overflow issue. When driving sround the area, the car would run a bit warm and seemed to have s hard time maintaining the 180 tstat setting. But, yhat could be from poor air draw from the fan, or the 1 row radiator being taxed. It obviously was worst when trying to get some a/c cooling.

I've got an idea for a better electric pump option, but would need to see if it could work.
Meziere and others have electric pump cartridges for like chevy LT1 and modular Ford 4.6 that are bolt in. If we had a machined plate for our pump housings similar to the CSR, then have it accept one of those with sn oring seal, it would sure make installing a replacement easier. The 100 series Meziere pumps are rated at 2400 hours service. But the higher series and HD models are rated better.

With the cost of the proper design crossflow radistor being so high, i might want to find s universsl downflow that could work and be a bettrr pricepoint.
Keeping an electric pump would offset the need for the crossflow radiator from a varying waterflow standpoint.

[going4speed]

Wayne,

Funny I've been watching this thread and went out to the car last night and my overflow tank it filled to the brim. I had a coolant leak I knew of and it turned out to me a nos mopar radiator cap. When the car got to fan turn on temp I could watch the radiator cap and as the fan turned on the cap would leak like crazy. Turned out the cap seal was able to move around and not stay centered. This still does not answer now my question as to why all the coolant ended up in the overflow. Perhaps the leaky cap was not enabling the system to draw back fluid due to the leak.

So in short I say take a look at the top gasket in the radiator caps you use to see that they cant float around and stay centered during install.

Frank

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

what is the issue with the csr impeller - I have a csr pump waiting for my build downstairs so it's probably something I should know too lol

also if looking into otherbrands of pumps the ones from moroso might be worth a look see

- it seems they rate their pump motors for a really large number of opperating hours - I was planing on buying one each for my 460 and 5.4 ford motors

[wheming]

Wayne,

Funny I've been watching this thread and went out to the car last night and my overflow tank it filled to the brim. I had a coolant leak I knew of and it turned out to me a nos mopar radiator cap. When the car got to fan turn on temp I could watch the radiator cap and as the fan turned on the cap would leak like crazy. Turned out the cap seal was able to move around and not stay centered. This still does not answer now my question as to why all the coolant ended up in the overflow. Perhaps the leaky cap was not enabling the system to draw back fluid due to the leak.

So in short I say take a look at the top gasket in the radiator caps you use to see that they cant float around and stay centered during install.

Frank

Thanks Frank.
I have looked exhaustively at radiator caps!
If your seal was that bad, the other seal in your cap could also be bad.
There are actually three seals in a radiator cap.
1. The largest diameter one that seals the cap to the radiator fill port.
2. The spring relief disc. This is the disc that lifts at the rated cap pressure. It seals the inner diameter of the radiator fill port.
3. The vacuum relief valve. Technically the seal is the same piece of rubber as the spring (pressure) relief, but if the seal under the vacuum relief is bad it might allow coolant to escape under pressure when this valve is supposed to be seated.

[wheming]

what is the issue with the csr impeller - I have a csr pump waiting for my build downstairs so it's probably something I should know too lol

also if looking into otherbrands of pumps the ones from moroso might be worth a look see

- it seems they rate their pump motors for a really large number of opperating hours - I was planing on buying one each for my 460 and 5.4 ford motors

I thought i posted a pic in here, but it could have been in the other thread.
But here it is. Look at the two pumps side by side. What difference stands out?

If you look closely you'll see the blades are angled in the wrong direction.

Also as far as making product quality observations, the wiring plug is not a weathertight plug.
The impellar is attached to the motor shaft with threads. So motor rotation is important. Motor starts either torque the impellar tighter, or they try to loosen depending on motor rotation. With the pitch of the impellar, i wonder if the threads are the correct pitch to tighten (since it looks like the impellar is designed to spin in the opposite direction.)

I probably had mine running a total of a few-handful of hours all SDAC. So far, no problems. But i am kind of reluctant to consider it safe for daily driving.

[going4speed]

I thought, mistakingly, that a nos cap would work. The stant cap I just put on seems to be holding but now I'm really dumping coolant out of the overflow.

[Wastelands Warrior]

I thought i posted a pic in here, but it could have been in the other thread.
But here it is. Look at the two pumps side by side. What difference stands out?

If you look closely you'll see the blades are angled in the wrong direction.

Also as far as making product quality observations, the wiring plug is not a weathertight plug.
The impellar is attached to the motor shaft with threads. So motor rotation is important. Motor starts either torque the impellar tighter, or they try to loosen depending on motor rotation. With the pitch of the impellar, i wonder if the threads are the correct pitch to tighten (since it looks like the impellar is designed to spin in the opposite direction.)

I probably had mine running a total of a few-handful of hours all SDAC. So far, no problems. But i am kind of reluctant to consider it safe for daily driving.

Darn it,.Wayne. I was hoping that the electric pump was going to be all that and 2 bags of chips! Maybe I should invest my money elsewhere.

[wheming]

Darn it,.Wayne. I was hoping that the electric pump was going to be all that and 2 bags of chips! Maybe I should invest my money elsewhere.

Sorry Bob. I have been meaning to reply to your pm. I drove back from SDAC and had to work nightshift thst same night through tonight. I'll be off tomorrow then on for 6 more nights 12 hr shifts.

Anyway, i was pretty disappointed too since i was so excited when i bought it. But found out after some folks having troubles, and made some observations on my own.

I think our community could have a nice electric waterpump setup, if someone could machine a plate that accepts a better cartridge pump.
Like this:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...050885&alt=web
Here is another similar one from Summitt Racing:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...935201&alt=web
Those would require a gasket. But the modular Ford v8 cartridge uses orings.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...025321&alt=web
Both of those have impellars that look to be set in the proper direction for our pump housings.

There are inline electric pumps or universal remote mount. That could be another option. That would require a special length tube/spacer for the lower water pump bolt/stud so that the alternator could still mount properly to that stud portion. AND you would still need a machined part to mount to the block, a piece that bolts to the 3 bolt flat with an oring that then is threaded internally for -AN radiator hose or has and elbow and hose barb.
Either way would then allow for quick and easy replacement without having to remove the a/c bracket.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Machining of a plate would be cake walk it looks like if meziere pump fits in the stock housing. Not sure if you could return pumps if you bought them for a test fit.....

[wheming]

Machining of a plate would be cake walk it looks like if meziere pump fits in the stock housing. Not sure if you could return pumps if you bought them for a test fit.....

They don't really show alot of measurement specs for them. But if they are know fit for the intended application they probably wouldn't.

I might call and see if i can get a more detailed drawig with measurements. I'd like to know the impellar diameter, impellar axial dimension, and how deep fro the mounting flange to edge of impellar.
Then i could see how close it could be.
Maybe also i could see by ordering a stock pump for the application from the local auto parts.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

thanks for the pic !

certainly seems they made little boo boo I was unaware of until now

I'm now wondering if a reverse rotation housing could e made into a non reverse housing - that would be the "simple" fix I supose - some welding / filling and grinding ..maybe ?

[wheming]

thanks for the pic !

certainly seems they made little boo boo I was unaware of until now

I'm now wondering if a reverse rotation housing could e made into a non reverse housing - that would be the "simple" fix I supose - some welding / filling and grinding ..maybe ?

You could always put on the early pump, but you would still need a new plate made to fit the shape of that housing and accept the electric pump parts.