16v head on common block?

[polopharm]

Sorry to be ignorant but wondering if a t3 head will bolt onto a common block?
If so what is involved. I did try n do a forum search.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

did you mean to say non common block ?
'cause t3's were common block based motors

[polopharm]

No that's what I wanted to know. That if I got a t3 head I could bolt it to a common block. I was not sure what block the t3 used.
And so I assume all motor mounts are the same and most of the accessories are the same ?

[contraption22]

No that's what I wanted to know. That if I got a t3 head I could bolt it to a common block. I was not sure what block the t3 used.
And so I assume all motor mounts are the same and most of the accessories are the same ?

The motor mounts are the same, but the accessory brackets are unique.

[Pat]

Motor mounts are the same and as Mike stated, accessory brackets are different. But, if you're not running AC, running 8v accessories on a T-3 is not a problem. most brackets bolt up without modification. I've done just that on my Rampage, which is a T-3, but I'm running the 8v accessories. What I'm not sure about is what PS pump you have on there. The early 8v ps bracket and pump are fine, but I suspect the later, plastic tank pump and brackets could be an issue.

Other difference between the T-3 block and the 8v block is that the T-3 does not have the distributor hole. If you wanted to run a T-3 on 8v electronics and run a distributor, the stock location doesn't work with the stock T-3 intake manifold. You could run the distributor off the head or you could do a custom intake. The timing belt crank pulley is different, as is the intermediate shaft pulley on the T-3 since the T-3 timing belt teeth are more of a W shape than a square or round tooth. The I shaft pulley is also a different size, which normally is not an issue unless you intend to run a distributor in the stock location since the I shaft drives the distributor.

If you're considering going T-3, you might want to consider hitting up Mike Wah. I've been talking to him a lot lately and he's very serious about selling his. I bet a reasonable deal could be had if you hit him up. His car is very well built, is a proven performer and is ready to go. Buy his, sell yours and you're ready.

Pat

[ATaylorRacing]

Ummmmm...IZ might stick a T III head on the Matchbox and keep the carb! I guess I could get a DOHC or SOHC Neon head then too.

[contraption22]

I guess I could get a DOHC or SOHC Neon head then too.

That requires a bit more work as not all of the oil passages line up.

[HSKR]

I'm running a TIII head on a 2.5L common block out of my 8V Dytona right now. Using all TIII accesories, crank tigger, and cam sensor though. Using the distributor hole as my crankcase vent. Swapped over the crank timing gear and intermediate shaft pulley.

[Chris W]

Sorry to be ignorant but wondering if a t3 head will bolt onto a common block?
If so what is involved. I did try n do a forum search.

Keep in mind you will need to switch to 16-valve pistons if it's an 8-V TI, TII or TIV block. Also TIII flywheel with crank sensor gaps would be necessary depending on which electronics you will use.

Chris-TU

[HSKR]

Keep in mind you will need to switch to 16-valve pistons if it's an 8-V TI, TII or TIV block. Also TIII flywheel with crank sensor gaps would be necessary depending on which electronics you will use.

Chris-TU

You don't "need to" change pistons. The 8v pistons in my 2.5 block in my Spirit R/T work just fine. Ideal? Maybe not, but don't cause problems with it running. I even drove for over 10k miles on a 2.2 TIII tune with no issues before I had boost button make a 2.5 TIII cal cornme, which he had to tweak from first cal because it was rich.

[83scamp]

You don't "need to" change pistons. The 8v pistons in my 2.5 block in my Spirit R/T work just fine. Ideal? Maybe not, but don't cause problems with it running. I even drove for over 10k miles on a 2.2 TIII tune with no issues before I had boost button make a 2.5 TIII cal cornme, which he had to tweak from first cal because it was rich.

My guess is the notches keep the TIII a non-interference engine like the 8V's are. Using the 8V pistons probably makes it an interference engine, and given the TIII's appetite for cam belts, may not be the wisest move... But you are correct, it will work...

[Pat]

My guess is the notches keep the TIII a non-interference engine like the 8V's are. Using the 8V pistons probably makes it an interference engine, and given the TIII's appetite for cam belts, may not be the wisest move... But you are correct, it will work...

There is also a significant difference in compression ratio. The T3 head has a 57cc chamber, the swirl 8v head I believe is 48cc's. That being the case, using 22 cc dish 2.5 8v pistons or 14 cc 2.2 8v pistons instead of the stock 6cc dish T3 pistons results in a very low compression ratio.

[rx2mazda]

....and given the TIII's appetite for cam belts...

Please tell me more about this appetite.....

I know about the supposed i-shaft problems but I've never once heard about or known anyone's TIII to eat timing belts.

[Pat]

I've driven and raced t3's for over 10 years. Never lost a timing belt or I shaft. Always use good parts, replace the I shaft bearings and use raised retainers.

[HSKR]

Yes compression ratio will be lower, but not a "need to" thing. If anything, the blower compression ratio allows fornru ningnhigher boost levels safer.

[polopharm]

Thanks for all the insight. Going to keep my eyes open. Buying just a head does not seem cost effective based on the need to change all accesories and the piston issue etc.
Looks like I will stick to plan of building a hi output 8v unless a complete t3 becomes available.
As I am still finishing up the work on swapping in the new 8v for the dead one , as well as lots of goodies , I am in no hurry to build the next powerplant.
I have access to a nos common block fully complete with a 555 tranny for under 700 00. I think I will just build that in my spare time. And just run the very low mileage non common block I am sticking in the car now.
Hold up has has been plumbing issues with the Tu header and poor clearance with the gtp subframe, no room for wastegate ,2 piece intake bigger tb, need to relocate cold air intake , installing new lightened flywheel , quaiffe lsd etc. Hopefully dropping in the built common block will be easier now that this is all done.
Waiting on dyno to work on tune , bigger injectors etc
But still interested if a good deal comes along on a complete t3 longblock.

[iTurbo]

I have NEVER lost a timing belt either. We're talking 10s of thousands of miles delivering pizza for Dominos with lots of street racing at every opportunity. Make sure your I-shaft bearings are good and properly tension the timing belt. The TIII is the way to go for big power. I've heard the Masi 16v is even better but unfortunately still just a novelty.

[Ondonti]

Why not hybrid?
I run one 3.0 with interference piston to valve setup. Not really worried. It was the factory setup in 1 mitsubishi car (1992 diamante 3.0). Obviously there is some advantage to avoiding timing belt problems when you sell millions of the engines and they are going in lower social class vehicles that will probably skip maintenance.

Pat mentioned the compression ratio differences with a TIII and how he thinks that is not ideal, I would agree and add that since the pistons you are using don't have a dish that matches the combustion chamber (like a 3.0) that changing the dish has more possible negative effects when it comes to squish (detonation prevention) etc.

[Force Fed Mopar]

I've driven and raced t3's for over 10 years. Never lost a timing belt or I shaft. Always use good parts, replace the I shaft bearings and use raised retainers.

I have NEVER lost a timing belt either. We're talking 10s of thousands of miles delivering pizza for Dominos with lots of street racing at every opportunity. Make sure your I-shaft bearings are good and properly tension the timing belt. The TIII is the way to go for big power. I've heard the Masi 16v is even better but unfortunately still just a novelty.

Are we talking about this with factory belt routing and tension, or the modified setup Jackson came up with and so many people run now? Or both?

Why not hybrid?
I run one 3.0 with interference piston to valve setup. Not really worried. It was the factory setup in 1 mitsubishi car (1992 diamante 3.0). Obviously there is some advantage to avoiding timing belt problems when you sell millions of the engines and they are going in lower social class vehicles that will probably skip maintenance.

Pat mentioned the compression ratio differences with a TIII and how he thinks that is not ideal, I would agree and add that since the pistons you are using don't have a dish that matches the combustion chamber (like a 3.0) that changing the dish has more possible negative effects when it comes to squish (detonation prevention) etc.

The 8v and TIII dish is roughly the same shape, just different depths.

[Pat]

Factory belt routing for me.