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Thread: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

  1. #1
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    I am planning to use 2 stock TII intercoolers for my P body project. I am planning to be in the 20psi range with my 88 TII Shelby Z engine with several S60 parts. The goal is a good DD with a punch when you need it. Current 87 TI with Manual boost control at 12psi works well. Of course, two IC could be hooked up in to configuration serial or parallel.

    serial advantage is the outlet temperature should be lowest of the two configurations but the pressure drop will be twice that of stock.
    parallel advantage is the pressure drop is roughly half that of stock and 4x less than serial but outlet temperature should be less than stock (due to lower linear velocity thus twice the residence time of stock) but higher than the serial configuration.

    My gut tells the parallel configuration should be the better of the two

    All comments welcome.

  2. #2
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Parallel has been shown to have the most significant results.

  3. #3
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    I wouldn't want to imagine the pressure loss with two stock coolers run in series.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???



    =)


    Working on clearing the decks.

  5. #5
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Excellent.... theory and practice agree.

    “In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”


    Albert Einstein

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    OK
    Now the hard question. Where would you place them in a P body?
    I am thinking in front and low as I would rather not be after the AC as the stock one is.
    I am open to ideas

  7. #7
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I wouldn't want to imagine the pressure loss with two stock coolers run in series.
    I actually got to measure this. After telling a customer Not to even try it, of course, he had to give it a try! lol

    S60 turbo and he couldn't figure out why he couldn't make more than 20 psi intake boost pressure. So when he brought it to the shop and I saw what he had done, I HAD to measure the difference. A couple of guys were at the shop and made gentlemen bets on how much drop there would be. Because only 20 psi boost, I figured at least 5 psi loss. Can't remember what everyone else said, but pretty sure I was the highest.

    I was Wrong, it was Double my prediction......10PSI loss! So the poor turbo was belting out 30psi in order to make 20 psi intake boost pressure.

    Suffice to say, I found the reason he couldn't make more than 20psi in the intake!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
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    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    OK
    Now the hard question. Where would you place them in a P body?
    I am thinking in front and low as I would rather not be after the AC as the stock one is.
    I am open to ideas
    Now the flip side to this is I also ran two stock I/C in the Charger, run in parallel to about 480WHP. At that power level they would heat soak after one full pass at the track and IF I hot lapped the Charger it would lose 3mph on the next pass. This was when it was trapping about 133mph IMS.

    I also measured the pressure drop, but only at around 33psi and I believe it was somewhere between 1 and 1.5 psi, again IMS.

    Two of them fit like gloves right inside the front rebar of a 2-dr L-body. Don't know how much room a P-body has in the front rebar, but I seem to remember some openings down low no?

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  9. #9
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I wouldn't want to imagine the pressure loss with two stock coolers run in series.
    A single is 5 psi at 20 pounds of boost.


    Working on clearing the decks.

  10. #10
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Couple pics to give an idea........

    On G-bodies I would run them below the rebar in the two openings in the ground FX.
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    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  11. #11
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Thanks to everyone for the fantastic information!!! I believe I should be able to find room up front.

  12. #12
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Rob, yours was very tricky, at a glance they looked in series, but in fact they were parallel !!
    How about if one were restricted to stock boost, say 15 at the intake for easy figuring.
    Would 2 in series be any benefit due to extra cooling, or would the pressure drop out weigh any possible cooling benefit.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
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  13. #13
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    Rob, yours was very tricky, at a glance they looked in series, but in fact they were parallel !!
    How about if one were restricted to stock boost, say 15 at the intake for easy figuring.
    Would 2 in series be any benefit due to extra cooling, or would the pressure drop out weigh any possible cooling benefit.

    Thanks
    Randy
    I would say the pressure drop would outweigh any benefit. At that point you would be better off with a decent ebay unit, or make a dually like Gary posted.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  14. #14
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    5psi at 20psi tells me I don't think you would actually drop temps at all with the 2nd intercooler in series as 30psi from the compressor will be a load of heat.
    The problem with intercoolers is almost always flow. Temperature drop can actually improve with more flow area as the intercooler can only reject so much heat. A larger intercooler designed and property fitted also has more flowpath for heat to exit the intercooler.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    5psi at 20psi tells me I don't think you would actually drop temps at all with the 2nd intercooler in series as 30psi from the compressor will be a load of heat.
    .
    Correct.

    I boxed one up and ran water through it and it made no difference at all vs being air to air.


    Working on clearing the decks.

  16. #16
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Dual intercooler.... serial vs parallel???

    I think I will use the one I found on the right!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by chromguy; 01-10-2016 at 01:14 PM.
    Regards,
    Miles

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