Turbonator auxiliary temp input

[wheming]

So one of my goals with using Asa's dual thermocouple gauge kit was to send the intake charge temp to the computer. There is the input available already, and just needs a wire on that pin?

Some follow up questions:

Will MPScan be able to read/log the charge temp without there being a check in the configuration box? Is that box just to enable the additional modifiers for charge temp?

If you can have a temperature input, without allowing any control, and are able to monitor the reading for operator information only, could you then use any temperature input you'd like? Specifically, could i configure that temerature input for a EGT reading?

I'm interested in being able to switch the input between the two outputs on my gauge. This way i could get logs with my charge temp, and my EGT on different runs.

[ShelGame]

So one of my goals with using Asa's dual thermocouple gauge kit was to send the intake charge temp to the computer. There is the input available already, and just needs a wire on that pin?

Some follow up questions:

Will MPScan be able to read/log the charge temp without there being a check in the configuration box? Is that box just to enable the additional modifiers for charge temp?

If you can have a temperature input, without allowing any control, and are able to monitor the reading for operator information only, could you then use any temperature input you'd like? Specifically, could i configure that temerature input for a EGT reading?

I'm interested in being able to switch the input between the two outputs on my gauge. This way i could get logs with my charge temp, and my EGT on different runs.

If the checkbox for the charge temp is not enabled in the cal, then the ECU won't read or store the input value. It just uses a 'dummy' value. If the checkbox is 'on' then the code treats it as if it was t he factory charge temp sensor and filters/scales it appropriately.

It's possible to do what you want, but it would take some more coding.

[wheming]

I was hoping to be able to log the intake temp without the computer adjusting for that sensor input. This way i can trend it during my runs, but not have to worry that it is effecting my tuning tests.
I don't want to introduce it as a variable until after the tuning is a bit more refined.

The EGT value just would be logged to see what it displays during the run.
Is there any other available analog inputs?

[ShelGame]

You can do that now, by setting the fuel from IAT table to 0. But, the computer will still try to filter the IAT input. Can't work around that. So, your data will be averaged by the ECU, not real-time exactly.

I'd need to make a code modification to be able to use that input as a generic temp input for logging purposes. Then with a checkbox if it's to be used with the stock IAT sensor. It's easy enough to do, if there's enough interest in it.

[wheming]

Revisiting this.
Maybe it needs a repost with different title to get some attention, but are there other MPScan/MPTune users that would be interested in having a generic temp input available for logging purposes?
Using the available charge temp sensor input, Turbo I configurations could have an available aux temp input.
I envision using it to log EGT from an output of my gauge directly into MPScan. Or being able to switch and log intake temp from another gauge output.
If there is enough interest Rob may be open to supporting the code change.

[wowzer]

wayne - i just started working on an arduino project that not only will log the ecu ram addresses but provide at least 4 external analogue channels to input into mpscan (if the chip works that i am using it would be easy to switch it to 8 (or more) external channels. it would be a separate "box" that would do all the input gathering that is then accessed via bluetooth. all the pc/tablet/phone would have to then do is just get the data versus having to do the actually ecu logging. much simpler setup and mostly eliminates the darn latency in the usb protocols. it also would have a micro SD card to log to. i've got the regular ecu stuff done. just need some time to work on the A2D stuff and then the SD card stuff then have one of the forum guru's figure out how to put it into a form that people can either build themselves or purchase.

anyhow, i can easily add a generic input - actually i'll add a couple. i'll do that today and upload it to the web so you can download the new versions with it in. then you could actually change the ram address to anything you wanted by editing it in the table and not having to fool with the "preconfigured" inputs. rob would still need to change the code for the charge temp to make it work right for you tho. maybe he could just select another open ram location (if there are any!) and store the raw data in it before its averaged. then use mpscan to pull that location.

[wheming]

Sounds like an interesting project. So that would also speed up your logging sample rate without increasing the number of corrupted samples?
I think having the ability for folks to add some inputs, might prove useful to those of us that are choosing to stick with factory electronics. It would also allow some flexibility to test some stuff, like being able to have a stock narrowband O2 to control, while logging both narrowband, and wideband readings.
We need the wideband logs to tune, but at times i wondered what our old school tuning would equate to in wideband AFR.
The temp and EGT logging would be nice to have it all in one place.

I think you guys have already squeezed alot of functionality in tuning the stock electronics platform. Its amazing to me, and is appreciated!

[wowzer]

the benefit of the project would be:
1) the device communicates directly with the ecu ttl lines without the problematic latency/usb buffering issues we currently experience. similar to the "old" days using an rs232 connection with the separate inverter box but at a much higher speed.
2) the host software on the pc/tablet/phone connects via bluetooth and only needs to send a 1 byte command to request a "packet" of ram addresses. so much less demand/coding on the host side which REALLY simplifies phone connections.
3) 4 (or more) 0-5v channels for external inputs (wideband, egt, oil pressure, etc) that would be polled in the same loop as the ram addresses and included in the "packet" for display by mpscan
4) logging to an SD card directly. haven't fully thought the implementation out but definitely would not require any external host to initiate. i.e. push a "record" button on the device and it would log the predetermined addresses/channels to the SD card in .csv format (just the raw byte values).
5) ability to flash/read the ecu binaries (similar to mptune) via bluetooth connection. so you could have several binaries on your phone/tablet and flash them as needed. the goal would be to eventually have a very scaled down version of mptune for the droid so you could change the binaries also.


***edit***
also, i think we should make this an open source project also. that way it could be a DIY deal and everybody could contribute. a DIY setup could probably be done for < $50. keep the code simple and documented and let this community develop it. i'll get the basics figured out, then open it up.

[wheming]

Sounds exciting!
Thank you for your part in developing the idea, the groundwork, and for as far as you take this.
I wish i could contribute, however this programming is outside my present skill set. But i know there are others here that could. I hope they become interested in the project and its possibilities!

[chromguy]

the benefit of the project would be:
1) the device communicates directly with the ecu ttl lines without the problematic latency/usb buffering issues we currently experience. similar to the "old" days using an rs232 connection with the separate inverter box but at a much higher speed.
2) the host software on the pc/tablet/phone connects via bluetooth and only needs to send a 1 byte command to request a "packet" of ram addresses. so much less demand/coding on the host side which REALLY simplifies phone connections.
3) 4 (or more) 0-5v channels for external inputs (wideband, egt, oil pressure, etc) that would be polled in the same loop as the ram addresses and included in the "packet" for display by mpscan
4) logging to an SD card directly. haven't fully thought the implementation out but definitely would not require any external host to initiate. i.e. push a "record" button on the device and it would log the predetermined addresses/channels to the SD card in .csv format (just the raw byte values).
5) ability to flash/read the ecu binaries (similar to mptune) via bluetooth connection. so you could have several binaries on your phone/tablet and flash them as needed. the goal would be to eventually have a very scaled down version of mptune for the droid so you could change the binaries also.


***edit***
also, i think we should make this an open source project also. that way it could be a DIY deal and everybody could contribute. a DIY setup could probably be done for < $50. keep the code simple and documented and let this community develop it. i'll get the basics figured out, then open it up.

Wowzer, are you planning to using the Arduino built in ADC? If so I would like to comment on the input impedance from the ADC is not the best and the circuit under test output impedance should be lower than 10K. This can be solved by using an op amp with high input impedance as a voltage follower aka buffer or by using a dedicated ADC. A dedicated ADC can help with greater input impedance and greater resolution. For example when the charge temp sensor is low, the input impedance of the ADC will lower the voltage measured and thus both the Arduino and ECU will receive the incorrect data. Yes I tried this a year or so ago and the values are crazy with the Arduino attached (as measured with my Fluke 87). YMMV

Oh I have used the Adafruit RTC/SD shield lots for logging and it works well. http://www.adafruit.com/products/1141

[wowzer]

I purchased a separate 12 bit adc which I was debating on using since I am trying to keep the overall costs down. Based on your input I may go ahead and use it. i am not knowledgeable enough in all the nuances of electrical circuits to finalize a product and would rely on others to do that. my focus is on the software side. I did look at the sd card you noted but am hoping a much cheaper unit I ordered works also. We'll see. Thanks for the heads up.

[chromguy]

I also use these guys for inexpensive Arduino and electronics
http://stores.ebay.com/Czb-Electronic

[ShelGame]

I'd be happy to design a single-board incorporating all of the Arduino prototype stuff you come up with, Morris. I use Osh Park to make boards, they have an open-source hardware hosting space. I could put the boards up there for anyone to make at their leisure.

Luckily, all of the Arduino boards are open-source. So, it should be relatively easy to combine everything into 1 board.

I recently got an R3/Redboard clone myself. Along with a BT module, a Real-time datalogging board, and several sensors (mostly weather stuff to start with).

[chromguy]

Hello Rob,
I am interested which Real-time datalogging board you selected. I hear that Osh Park boards are very high quality, I have not tried as all my projects are one off ...From HVAC control to Coffee Roaster control to controlling a Gas chromatograph and a home solar collector for the pool to name a few.
To keep cost down I usually design with a small Arduino mini clone at less than $2.00 each delivered. I have at least a dozen at all times, as I use these all the time.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Pro-Mini...item1e90d2f8e3

[ShelGame]

I dunno, got it from China off eBay. It just has a real-time clock module and a SD card slot. There are sketches out there to use it.

Here's another thought for Morris - What if we incorporate a 12v driver to enable the bootstrap signal? We could then flash wirelessly from MP Tune, if you could setup MP Tune to also work over BT. What do you think? I'd love to be able to completely get rid of the FTDI cables!

[chromguy]

I dunno, got it from China off eBay. It just has a real-time clock module and a SD card slot. There are sketches out there to use it.

These work well, one project I logged my house temperature/humidity and sensor voltages at one sample per minute for approx 5 years. Without issue.
One gotcha with the RTC sketches, to set the RTC time you need to upload the sketch which updates the DS1307 with the PC time and date, then comment out the RTC time update line and upload again. If you do not run the second sketch/upload, the RTC will reset the clock to the time and date of first upload whenever the micro is reset/reboot. I found out the hard way.

[wowzer]

I dunno, got it from China off eBay. It just has a real-time clock module and a SD card slot. There are sketches out there to use it.

Here's another thought for Morris - What if we incorporate a 12v driver to enable the bootstrap signal? We could then flash wirelessly from MP Tune, if you could setup MP Tune to also work over BT. What do you think? I'd love to be able to completely get rid of the FTDI cables!

Again, speaking from ignorance, I think an option would be to drive the 5v arduino with some type of voltage divider so both 12v and 5v would be available so all you would need todo is tie the "unit"to a 12v key on source and ground. Rob, what voltage do you need for the fcc stuff?

[ShelGame]

Again, speaking from ignorance, I think an option would be to drive the 5v arduino with some type of voltage divider so both 12v and 5v would be available so all you would need todo is tie the "unit"to a 12v key on source and ground. Rob, what voltage do you need for the fcc stuff?

Just needs 12v.

What I meant was, have the Arduino do the switching for the bootstrap line. That way you don't need to run any wires to the interior. Just plug in the Arduino, run battery 12v to it, and do everything via BT.

[wowzer]

That is what I was trying to say also! ! It would be easy to flip a pin on /off to trigger the device to provide the voltage.

[chromguy]

That is what I was trying to say also! ! It would be easy to flip a pin on /off to trigger the device to provide the voltage.

Since the pins of the Arduino can not handle any more than 5.5V, you will need to drive a relay/MOSFET for example to turn on/off 12V.