New pistons

[HSKR]

Where is the best place to buy new pistons from? Going to get my stock block rebuilt, since the 2.5L has developed an oil leak, and I need new pistons. I have rods, and will get crank fixed.

[HSKR]

Nothing?

[Turbo Joe]

Where is the best place to buy new pistons from? Going to get my stock block rebuilt, since the 2.5L has developed an oil leak, and I need new pistons. I have rods, and will get crank fixed.

TO Answer your question as best as possible, let me put it to you this way... whats the best icecream flavor? see my point? people will have different opinions on who makes the BEST pistons for our cars. I like JE Pistons and also like Wiseco Pistons, but there are other companies out there. I just prefer JE Pistons or Wiseco .. Turbosunleashed.com, fwdperformance.com , forwardmotioninc.com are good places to shop at.

[HSKR]

I didn't see any pistons listed on TUs website, FWDP only shows the venolias. I wasn't asking for best piston, just best place to buy from, as in, cheapest. On a tight budget. I have JE SRP pistons in my truck.

[Force Fed Mopar]

We just got a set of .040 over Wiseco TIII pistons from TU for 91dodgespiritrt's car. They were around $570 shipped I think.

[tryingbe]

I didn't see any pistons listed on TUs website

http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/forg...235_47_74.html

[4 l-bodies]

No one makes forged inexpensive pistons for our motors. You can spend $499-750 for a set of pistons these days depending on what you want. CP, Ross, Venolia, JE, Diamond, Aries, Wiseco, etc., all have made pistons for our applications. The last set of custom pistons I had made up (for the other 16V) were around $750 with upgraded pins & rings, asymmetrical design, and a 5th spare piston. Additional money will be spent on coatings.
IMO, when it comes to pistons you kind of get what you pay for. What rings if any come with them? What pin size and material did they use? What do they weigh? What style of locks? Are they using 2618 material? I've had TIII Diamond pistons made up before a couple of times. They came out very nice, but the last time the manufacturer couldn't count and ended up with 5 when I ordered 4. So customer got a free spare ash tray. Your best bet for price is probably to use a stocked piston from one of the vendors.
Todd

[HSKR]

No one makes forged inexpensive pistons for our motors. You can spend $499-750 for a set of pistons these days depending on what you want. CP, Ross, Venolia, JE, Diamond, Aries, Wiseco, etc., all have made pistons for our applications. The last set of custom pistons I had made up (for the other 16V) were around $750 with upgraded pins & rings, asymmetrical design, and a 5th spare piston. Additional money will be spent on coatings.
IMO, when it comes to pistons you kind of get what you pay for. What rings if any come with them? What pin size and material did they use? What do they weigh? What style of locks? Are they using 2618 material? I've had TIII Diamond pistons made up before a couple of times. They came out very nice, but the last time the manufacturer couldn't count and ended up with 5 when I ordered 4. So customer got a free spare ash tray. Your best bet for price is probably to use a stocked piston from one of the vendors.
Todd

Thank you for the informative and complete reply.

[acannell]

I called pretty much everyone and compared prices.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ly-80-each-s-h

TLDR:


If you need the full shebang of pistons + rings + locks + pins, looks like TU and FWDP have the best deals, and are basically the same price if you go by their website pricing and assume $15 for shipping.

If you just want the pistons and locks, made to match your existing pins, rings, and bores, Venolia has by far the best price at $336 shipped.

[HSKR]

I'm assuming that I'm going to have to get cylindders bored as the #3 piston is stuck in the block from hammering the head when the rod broke.

[acannell]

I'm assuming that I'm going to have to get cylindders bored as the #3 piston is stuck in the block from hammering the head when the rod broke.

BTW what pistons are you thinking of replacing? Are they 0.030" cast mahles for a 2.5 turbo by any chance?

[Chris W]

I called pretty much everyone and compared prices.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ly-80-each-s-h

TLDR:


If you need the full shebang of pistons + rings + locks + pins, looks like TU and FWDP have the best deals, and are basically the same price if you go by their website pricing and assume $15 for shipping.

If you just want the pistons and locks, made to match your existing pins, rings, and bores, Venolia has by far the best price at $336 shipped.

Venolias require additional machining for the wrist pins that you have to take in account. Adding larger/heavier wrist pins is a power robber and not necessary. Venolia Pistons also require more clearance which causes excessive piston noise and the knock sensor will pull back timing.

Chris-TU

[acannell]

Venolias require additional machining for the wrist pins that you have to take in account. Adding larger/heavier wrist pins is a power robber and not necessary. Venolia Pistons also require more clearance which causes excessive piston noise and the knock sensor will pull back timing.

Chris-TU

The prices I got directly from Venolia were for stock pin sizes (.901). The FWDP prices are the 0.912 size. But either way why would additional machining be required? One is meant for the .901 (stock size, directly from Venolia), and the other is meant for 0.912 and comes with 0.912 pins, (Venolia from FWDP)..so whats the additional machining?

I spoke to Wiseco and Venolia and they both said the same thing about required clearance and their machining tolerances IIRC. Can you elaborate?

[Force Fed Mopar]

Venolia uses a different alloy (2618 I think?) that expands more than the Wisecos and other common pistons.

[HSKR]

New pistons would be for the stock 2.2L block

[Chris W]

The prices I got directly from Venolia were for stock pin sizes (.901). The FWDP prices are the 0.912 size. But either way why would additional machining be required? One is meant for the .901 (stock size, directly from Venolia), and the other is meant for 0.912 and comes with 0.912 pins, (Venolia from FWDP)..so whats the additional machining?

I spoke to Wiseco and Venolia and they both said the same thing about required clearance and their machining tolerances IIRC. Can you elaborate?

Last time we checked with Venolia they only offered a standard Chevy (.927") or Ford (.912") pin. They were not willing to make the .901 pin which is why we sell more forged Wiseco pistons. The additional machining was to machine the weak end of the rod for the larger wrist pin.

Venolias require more piston to wall clearance. Because of the extra clearance they can be noisy and set off the knock sensor.


Stephane Beauregard runs the Wisecos in his 8 second Charger. If they are durable enough for his race application then they should be good enough for your street car.


Chris-TU

[acannell]

2618 = more durable alloy thats generally better for turbos
4032 = higher silicon alloy thats generally more brittle, but because of higher silicon content, more dimensionally stable

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...ech-knowledge/

Both Venolia and Wiseco will make pistons out of either. Although they seem to reserve the 4032 for motorsports stuff (motorcycles, ATV's, etc..)

All of my pricing and info was based on 2618 alloy.

Venolia and Wiseco will make pistons for you with all kinds of custom geometry, the least of which is the pin diameter. I talked to Doug at Venolia and Sue at Wiseco a few months ago and both of them confirmed they could make pistons for the 0.901 pin. It would be really, really strange if they said "Nope we cant make your custom piston to a pin diameter you want." They can do whatever you want. The piston is machined from scratch.

Wall clearance is something YOU decide when you tell them the diameter of the piston you want. The alloys are the same so the expansion rate is the same between Venolia/Wiseco. Have your block inspected with a tenths dial bore indicator after machining and then have the pistons made to that diameter with a wall clearance you specify.

BTW all of this was for the 8V 2.2/2.5 but should also apply to the T3 (or any piston they make really)

[Force Fed Mopar]

The commonly available Venolias for the 2.2/2.5 are 2618 alloy. Obviously you can get either when special ordering, but the OP is looking for an off-the-shelf piston from a vendor.

[acannell]

The commonly available Venolias for the 2.2/2.5 are 2618 alloy. Obviously you can get either when special ordering, but the OP is looking for an off-the-shelf piston from a vendor.

Where did he say off-the-shelf or from a vendor?

I think its unlikely that TU or FWDP are selling 4032 pistons. That would be alarming. But it would explain why one has a reputation for more slap than another.

Also it would be nice to know if TU or FWDP actually stock these pistons or are having them machined-on-demand and so the same multiple week leadtime applies?

Regardless, TU and FWDP have the best pricing for a kit which includes pistons, rings, pins, and locks. If you're getting the whole shebang and dont want any custom changes then it seems like ordering from them would save you about $100 versus getting all those pieces direct.

But if you want just pistons and locks, and have pins and rings you can reuse (like from cast Mahles), $336 direct from Venolia/Wiseco is a steal. I talked to both of them in detail about it and they had no problem making the pistons to match my existing pins/rings, at that price. They told me to send in a piston/ring/pin set for them to measure.

[glhs727]

[QUOTE=acannell;1085494]

Also it would be nice to know if TU or FWDP actually stock these pistons or are having them machined-on-demand and so the same multiple week leadtime applies?

QUOTE]

We keep 2.2 8v std, .020.,.030, .040 .58v std., .020, .030, and .040 in stock
as well as 2.2 16v .020 and .030 and 2.5 16v piston in stock.

As far as noise goes, the recommended piston to wall clearance is .005-.007. if you keep your piston to wall clearance at the 5 thous. clearance, you minimize any noise or piston slap and we feel the better alloy makes a more durable and forgiving piston.