I found out where my oil is going

**Boost_Virgin** · 09-30-2006, 08:38 PM

Before the board crashed I had a thread posted about loosing that went like this.

Okay I have about 1500 miles on my rebuilt TIII engin (done buy a shop). I had the head crack fixed and had the head completely rebuilt. I also had the bottom end completely rebuilt with .020 over pistons. Please go to my car domain page for a detail listing of all the parts. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2258018 For some reson I'm looseing a ton of oil. It's about a qt. every 150 miles. It has been like this since day one. I did not worry before because I thought a new engin would use oil unitl everything is broke in. There are no exteral leaks, so it's going some were on the inside. I've check the turbo to intercooler pipes, and it's not there. When a turbo gose bad can it only leak oil into the exhuast? I'm not smoking badly. Something I do notice is every time I start my car it will puff smoke for 10 sec., but after that it clears up. The other day with my hatch open (hualing an air compressor) it smelled like it was burning oil. So what are some of the possable causes? How can I diagnoice what is going on?

Well I finally had time to pull the plugs. I did not have time to check the tops of the pistons with a pin light. I will be doing that tomarrow. But I did find out where the oil was going.

The spark plugs are laying in the correct firing order. Start on the left with cyl. 1. What is that black stuff all over them? It was real sticky. If coolent got down there and heated up would it do that? See last pic

This is the spark plug wire boot from cyl. 1.

What the hell would cause that much oil all over the spark plug? The other three were wet with oil. The electrodes show signs of bad oil control. They are covered in ash.

Last but not least the head is still leaking coolent. When the engin was rebuilt at a shop the head was sent off to there head guy to get that and a few other things. I'm P***ed OFF!!!

Where do I go from here. I will look at the tops of the pistons with a pin light. What else can I do to find where the problem really is? Simon said that I compression test will not tell me the state of the oil rings. I don't know if this matters, but I have about 22" of vac at warm idle. It also lets out a puff of smoke on start up.

**TopDollar69** · 09-30-2006, 11:05 PM

Im no TIII expert, but dont those heads like to crack, and seep oil and coolant into the valley where the spark plugs are? If I had to guess, I would say your head is still cracked, but I could be wrong. I would clean it all up, and watch in the valley with the car running to try and see where the leaks are coming from.

**WVRampage** · 09-30-2006, 11:55 PM

I dont know much about the TIII but at first I was gona tell you a cam cover was leaking and leting the oil go in the valley but after the last pic with the antifreeze in there I would have to say theres a crack some were in the head.

**looneytuner** · 10-01-2006, 09:33 AM

I think you need to cut your losses with that shop. Before you do anything, talk to Dependable machine shop. They did the head work for LRE. I think a third party to tear down your engine and write up what is wrong, and take that to the shop that did the work. Lambros doen't have the time to work on his cars, but Hood's is a mile away and he is respected and Lambros could check it there. See if they are insured and want to settle before court. Between Hood's and Lambros credentials, if they messed up they will pay for it. Everything you need is right there. There is a machinist at Terry's that assembles engines part time. He has done two 2.2's for me with no screwups other than what my son did to the one engine afterwards.. Independent garage with undisputed reputation, Bill Lambros, machine shop that knows the engine, best aluminum welder in St Louis. All within 5 miles.

**Rattlesnake** · 10-01-2006, 10:47 AM

I believe you have 2 different problems. The coolant and the oil. You can have compression, but that doesn't mean that you can not have problems with the oil control rings, they could be alingned wrong of if they were file to fit they might've left the gap with too much clearance. It could also be your valve guide seals. The fact that you have 22" of vacumm could be interpreted as good sealed cylinders. Have somebody do a leakdown test and a compression test. The leakdown test will be more helpful because it will tell you the sealing ability of the cylinders, but if you have bad oil control rings or valve seals the leakdown test won't tell you. The only way is to take it appart.

**86Shelby** · 10-01-2006, 12:20 PM

You're buring oil on #2 at the least. Look at the puffy grey deposits on that plug.

**Captain Chaos** · 10-02-2006, 12:26 PM

Do the TIII heads use spark plug tubes? Maybe the tubes are leaking? My SOHC Neon used to get build ups of oil in one of the tubes, from a seal leaking.

**turbovanman²** · 10-02-2006, 01:16 PM

TIII's don't use spark plug tubes, the head is all there is and its solid, well when new anyhow.

Can you take better pics of the plug ends, IE top and side but yeah, #2 looks the worst. Is that deposit on both sides or just one side? if one side, the valve seals/guides are junk. Where did they get the valve seals from, only Dodge carries them.

**Boost_Virgin** · 10-02-2006, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by turbovanman

TIII's don't use spark plug tubes, the head is all there is and its solid, well when new anyhow.

Can you take better pics of the plug ends, IE top and side but yeah, #2 looks the worst. Is that deposit on both sides or just one side? if one side, the valve seals/guides are junk. Where did they get the valve seals from, only Dodge carries them.

So you think #1 is normal looking?

It came out of the hole with that much oil on it. The cam covers do not leak. Brand new gaskets, and no sign of oil leaking off of them. I will try to get pics of the tops of the plugs. I'm not sure how well they will trun out with my 10 yr old cam.

**turbovanman²** · 10-02-2006, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Boost_Virgin

So you think #1 is normal looking?

It came out of the hole with that much oil on it. The cam covers do not leak. Brand new gaskets, and no sign of oil leaking off of them. I will try to get pics of the tops of the plugs. I'm not sure how well they will trun out with my 10 yr old cam.

I can't really tell what #1 looks like but external oil is bad but thats not enough externally to lose that much oil in 150 miles.

**Boost_Virgin** · 10-02-2006, 02:07 PM

The puddle under that spark plug is all oil that came off the spark plug. In the second pic I'm showing how oil soaked the plug wire boot is. None of the other boots had any oil on them. Since it hard to make out in the pic, when I pulled that spark plug it looked like it had been dropped in a bucket of oil.

**Boost_Virgin** · 10-04-2006, 08:59 AM

Well I have been reading Missouri's small claims court stuff. Basicly if I don't let the guy try to fix it the judge might throw the case out. So I will be dropping it off to the orginal goober that screwed it up the 1st time. Please everyone in the TM world please collectively cross your fingers for me.

**turbovanman²** · 10-04-2006, 01:25 PM

Crossed!

**Boost_Virgin** · 10-04-2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by turbovanman

Crossed!

WOO HOO only 1367 more members to go.

**mech1nxh** · 10-05-2006, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Boost_Virgin

WOO HOO only 1367 more members to go.

1366

I am planing to do my TIII this winter, have been hunting far and wide for a reputable machinist....scary...
p.s ..from what I have read the heads crack in the valley between the plug
bores and the pipe plugs...is this where yours was repaired?

also heres a link to a coolant leak area on the BOTTOM of the head
http://www.hometown.aol.com/mopartek/TIIIhead.html

hope this helps

**glhs727** · 10-05-2006, 10:08 PM

well, it isn't going to hurt the let them fix their mistake, and who knows, maybe the machinist had a bad day, and was just that 1% that wasn't right. But I think you at least owe them the oppurtunity to set it right. Plus if you aren't out any money, it's worth the try. BUT once you get it back, send it out to another reputable machine shop and have it pressure checked and looked over to make sure there aren't any issues before you reinstall it. Good luck and I got my fingers crossed for ya!
later,
Cindy

**looneytuner** · 10-06-2006, 01:53 AM

Is this the SAME shop that couldn't resurface a pressure plate worth a darn?? Dependable didn't do my pressure plate cause I was pulling it on a Saturday and recommended Handy Auto parts.What D said was "They have the same equipment and would REALLY have to work hard to mess it up."
I think if it is, you could check with the court about salvaging what is left of the car before it is destroyed and getting reimbursement from the duffus shop.

If they can't do the easy stuff right, how are they going to weld the cracks. Especially if they don't know the heads. They might be experienced on the big blocks and know nothing of the td's

**Boost_Virgin** · 10-06-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by mech1nxh

1366

I am planing to do my TIII this winter, have been hunting far and wide for a reputable machinist....scary...
p.s ..from what I have read the heads crack in the valley between the plug
bores and the pipe plugs...is this where yours was repaired?

also heres a link to a coolant leak area on the BOTTOM of the head
http://www.hometown.aol.com/mopartek/TIIIhead.html

hope this helps

Yes that is one of the many things that should have been fixed the 1st time. When looking do redo a TIII head save your self the trouble, and send it to Cindy. I really wish I had done that.

Originally Posted by looneytuner

Is this the SAME shop that couldn't resurface a pressure plate worth a darn?? Dependable didn't do my pressure plate cause I was pulling it on a Saturday and recommended Handy Auto parts.What D said was "They have the same equipment and would REALLY have to work hard to mess it up."
I think if it is, you could check with the court about salvaging what is left of the car before it is destroyed and getting reimbursement from the duffus shop.

If they can't do the easy stuff right, how are they going to weld the cracks. Especially if they don't know the heads. They might be experienced on the big blocks and know nothing of the td's

Yes it is the same shop. That is the part that scares me. I don't like the ideas of that shop touching my car with any tools. I do want to have a leg to stand on in court. Like Cindy said mybe they just had an off day. I know from working in mfg. there is scrap no matter what you do.

I just hope the guy dose a good job, and takes care of it. He will be getting the car on Monday, so we will have to wait and see. I don't want to take the guy to cort. I want to come to some kind of deal. I just get p*** off when I pay somebody good money to do it right the 1st time.

**turbovanman²** · 10-08-2006, 11:11 PM

Go have a look at the piston tops when the head is off. If there all evenly covered with carbon, the rings are fine. If there clean at 12 and 6 oclock, the rings didn't seat for whatever reason. DO NOT take no for an answer if he won't let you see them. This step is very important otherwise you'll be taking it apart again later.

**Boost_Virgin** · 10-09-2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by turbovanman

Go have a look at the piston tops when the head is off. If there all evenly covered with carbon, the rings are fine. If there clean at 12 and 6 oclock, the rings didn't seat for whatever reason. DO NOT take no for an answer if he won't let you see them. This step is very important otherwise you'll be taking it apart again later.

Is there any more pointers so I can be as educated as possable when talking with him? Will he be able to know what is going on with out pulling the head? I will be dropping the car off tonight. Please everyone educate me!

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