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Thread: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

  1. #21
    turbo addict
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    AJ already runs a larger Ford Air dam

  2. #22
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    relocate the heat exchanger down towards the radiator core and then make ducting to scoop air that runs under the bumper to flow over the heat exchanger. see this example under "intercooling" in maximum boost- page 53 of the pdf http://www.fusca.net/wp-content/uplo...imum_boost.pdf they made a box with a scoop that pulls air from under the radiator support- thats exactly what you need. you really do NOT want to cut the metal bumper itself- that will seriously compromise strength of the front end and you'll end up sitting with the engine in your lap if you get into a wreck.

  3. #23
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    Keep the low speed fan on going down the highway?

  4. #24
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    Have you yarn tested those vents on the hood? If they're too close to the window you might be pressurizing your engine bay and hurting airflow through the coolers.
    I keep forgetting to check this. The van is apart, once I get it back together I'll test it. It does make sense that they could be hurting my air flow since if I turn on my cooling fan at 70 mph (I have MS programmed to turn the fan off above 65 mph) when the AC is on and engine temps are 220* the fan will cool it down to 210*. Since I have the 9 minute timer turning on the low speed fan now, I really don't need to the hood vents anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    Do the oil coolers have to be rotated that direction? My thought is would they fit rotated 90 degrees so they fit behind the current cut-outs better, then you can duct them directly to the coolers and duct the back sides of them up to the radiator bottom.
    Yes they have to be like that because of the AWIC heat exchanger and the bumper supports.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    I'd also add ducting on the sides of the A/W cooler to the a/c core and then from the grill to the a/c core next to the headlights so no air can go around it. Every drop of air going into the grill has to go through the cooling system. So you need to force it through with ducting and then pull it out by creating a negative pressure area behind them.
    My radiator/condenser is pretty well boxed in and where it's not I have foam. You can see better here http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...n-build/page27 how I added aluminum to box it all in so air can't get around it. My AWIC heat exchanger is less than 1/4" away from the condenser.


    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    yep...

    I would say in order of most benefit to least benefit:

    -making coolers bigger Can't, no room.
    -optimizing ducting Can't, no room. Everything is already pressed up against my grill.
    -unstacking coolers so they arent in series Can't, no room. I already have two coolers UNDER the van.
    -making holes in front bigger (in this situation..i.e. not part of a ducting design) That's what I intended but the majority is against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrider View Post
    Your mini looks badass as is with that black grill. Would be a shame to take away from the badassness with those huge holes. Is there some stackable heat-proof foam tape that you could use to build up air dams between your coolers/bumpers/supports?? Like in layers. That would allow you to take everything apart, and it has squish to it. Which would make it work easier than a rigid dam solution. There has got to be something that would work. Something better than craft store foam tape, but cheaper than VHB.
    Thanks but everything is already as close as I can get it. If I use foam it will block fins of what lies behind what I'm ducting.


    Quote Originally Posted by csxtra View Post
    How about extending the bottom of the core support to minimize air going under the core support?

    Some of the later T-Ms had a plastic air dam that mounts to the core support that did just that. I put one on my CSX years ago when I was having issues with it getting warm on the highway (225 or so) with the A/C on. Just putting the extension on dropped temps at least 10-15 degrees. It creates a better low-pressure area behind the core support, increasing flow through the coolers and radiator.

    Of course it won't help around town, but every little bit helps.
    I already have a 4" air dam off of a Ford Exploder under my lower radiator support. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...all&highlight=

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty shadow View Post
    relocate the heat exchanger down towards the radiator core and then make ducting to scoop air that runs under the bumper to flow over the heat exchanger. see this example under "intercooling" in maximum boost- page 53 of the pdf http://www.fusca.net/wp-content/uplo...imum_boost.pdf they made a box with a scoop that pulls air from under the radiator support- thats exactly what you need. you really do NOT want to cut the metal bumper itself- that will seriously compromise strength of the front end and you'll end up sitting with the engine in your lap if you get into a wreck.
    If I do that air won't flow through it because there is a wall behind it. Ondonti already brought that up making me raise my oil cooler instead of lowering my trans cooler to match the height of my lower oil cooler.


    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Keep the low speed fan on going down the highway?
    The idea is to keep the fan off at higher speeds.


    So I managed to finish the ducting through my bumper today. I'm leaving for the weekend to attend a wedding so i won't have this back together and testing until next week.

    Lowered the trans cooler (right).


    But then decided to raise both oil and trans coolers up. I also opened up holes in bumper horizontally.


    Ducting made from aluminum inside bumper.


    Bumper cover on with holes opened up.


    Ducting close up.


  5. #25
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    No that'll probably just impede airflow through the cores. Above 45 fans become a restriction. If ducting is done right you don't need fans above 35mph or so. Look at an F1 car, no fans anywhere.

  6. #26
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    AJ already runs a larger Ford Air dam
    I would still put something below the heat exchangers where they're currently located. It looks to me like they get little flow, and what they do get may just roll down under the core support. It would be pretty simple to test.

  7. #27
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    Look at an F1 car, no fans anywhere.

    Let me know when you find a F1 car with an a/c compressor, or driving in 118F weather.

    I bet the van won't have a problem if AJ leave the a/c off too. AJ might overheat, but the van certainly won't.


    In a stock Volvo car, with a stock Volvo fan, at a 118F degree day with a/c on going down the highway, while the idiot temp gauge on the car says the temp is fine, this is what the actual temperature is.

    Is fan on? No idea. Am I worry about it? Not really. Any performance lost? Big time, but working a/c is more important than acceleration at 118F.


    Last edited by tryingbe; 06-26-2015 at 08:39 AM.

  8. #28
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Let me know when you find a F1 car with an a/c compressor, or driving in 118F weather.
    That's funny right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    I bet the van won't have a problem if AJ leave the a/c off too. AJ might overheat, but the van certainly won't.

    In a stock Volvo car, with a stock Volvo fan, at a 118F degree day with a/c on going down the highway, while the idiot temp gauge on the car says the temp is fine, this is what the actual temperature is.

    Is fan on? No idea. Am I worry about it? Not really. Any performance lost? Big time, but working a/c is more important than acceleration at 118F.


    The AC being on and over 110* really puts a load on cooling systems here. My idiot gauge in my '85 2.5 turbo wagon reads in the middle but my mechanical gauge reads 220*. If the AC is off and ambient in 110* +, both the van and the wagon will run about 200*.

  9. #29
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    A.J. want to help me with my lack-o-duct work

  10. #30
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    An F1 car generates way more thermal energy than our cars ever dream of and run smaller rads than our T2 rads, even if we're in 118 degree heat with the a/c on. The point was that if the ducting and flow through the coolers is done right then fans are useless and a big restriction above 35MPH or so. If you're on the freeway and kick the fan on and the car cools down you have an airflow problem.

    Things like factory shrouds on the sides of the rad and the splash guards in the wheel wells help too. Those things that 75% of the people probably throw away cause they do get in the way when working on the car.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Let me know when you find a F1 car with an a/c compressor, or driving in 118F weather.

    I bet the van won't have a problem if AJ leave the a/c off too. AJ might overheat, but the van certainly won't.


    In a stock Volvo car, with a stock Volvo fan, at a 118F degree day with a/c on going down the highway, while the idiot temp gauge on the car says the temp is fine, this is what the actual temperature is.

    Is fan on? No idea. Am I worry about it? Not really. Any performance lost? Big time, but working a/c is more important than acceleration at 118F.



  11. #31
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshelbys View Post
    A.J. want to help me with my lack-o-duct work
    But my ticket to Texas?

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    Things like factory shrouds on the sides of the rad and the splash guards in the wheel wells help too. Those things that 75% of the people probably throw away cause they do get in the way when working on the car.
    All my factory wheel well shields are intact and in place.

  12. #32
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    But my ticket to Texas?
    But of course! Need to have you out in Oct for cruisin the coast

  13. #33
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshelbys View Post
    But of course! Need to have you out in Oct for cruisin the coast
    I can't do October. I'm going to Japan.

  14. #34
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    hard to tell in the pics but do you have block off plates under the hoodvents??

  15. #35
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Need opinions, opening up van's bumper cover for more air.

    I do not have block off plates, they are drip trays that catch water and drain it way from important electronics. If it turns out my hood vents are the problem I don't have a problem with blocking them off or getting a new hood. The reason I had them was to vent the heat when I parked but now I have the fan with a timer up cool it down so they aren't needed.

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