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Thread: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

  1. #61
    turbo addict
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Quote Originally Posted by minigts View Post
    Reeves, did you use the glass or the bezel at all? Mine arrived today, but it was damaged on the glass and the trim. But if I'm not going to have to use it, probably not going to send it back.
    F that. If the glass and bezel are damaged, the unit may be damaged....send it back and stop being impatient!

  2. #62
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    because the gauge faces look so alike I think they are made by the same manufacturer as the inovative gauges - which I've read sometimes have issues

    I like my set of the 3 smaller ones (from summit) but the lens and retainer ring were really lose when I got the temp gauge - it fell off when I was working with it but a little crimp with the channel locks fixed it up ok

    the instruction sheet said a special dimmer for the led lighting in the gauge was needed and the standard dash light dimmer would not work

    I bought em for my truck but sadly life's got in the way like it does and I haven't yet had a chance to install them properly

  3. #63
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor minigts's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Quote Originally Posted by rx2mazda View Post
    F that. If the glass and bezel are damaged, the unit may be damaged....send it back and stop being impatient!
    I thought about that, but the damage was just a small crease on the bezel and of course, that was enough to crack the glass. Taking my chances and yes, I am being impatient. Hoping it won't come back to bite me, we'll find out soon.


    Got the gauge basically set, just need to get the wiring done and then pull the cluster and test it. I was able to do some cutting and get it to set correctly and still use the bracket on the back, so no glue required. If I find a spare cluster that I can cut up again, I'll probably redo it and cut only where I need to. First cut was a guess, then I cut some more and then some more. It's covered for the most part, but I would have preferred to cut only what I needed with the holes just a tad larger than necessary for minor adjustments. I'll take some measurements and post up for anyone who wants to do this in the future.

    And Reeves is right, these things fit ALMOST perfectly in the bezel and in general, where the old one used to go. Very minor adjustments required to get it to fit.

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    Jon Trotter

    1985 Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned
    1987 Shelby GLHS, #937
    1987 Shelby Lancer, #628

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    I can be ready. Please send pics of wife.
    _____DodgeZ add comments here______

  4. #64
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor minigts's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Reeves, did you just tap into a cable driven sensor or did you upgrade to the electronic one? Or did you piggy back off what you're using for your speed-based boost controller? I need a speed sensor and would prefer to just go to the electronic one, but concerned about using a 90 speed sensor with an 87 computer for an aftermarket speedo. I think it SHOULD work since the computer is just being told what the sensor is picking up, but not sure if there is more to it than that. It seems since everything at the speed sensor is mechanical, that it wouldn't matter which sensor is present.


    Jon Trotter

    1985 Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned
    1987 Shelby GLHS, #937
    1987 Shelby Lancer, #628

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    I can be ready. Please send pics of wife.
    _____DodgeZ add comments here______

  5. #65
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Huh...the back of that gauge looks like VDO gauges I used to deal with in boats way back in the day...late '90's.

  6. #66
    ...if you know what I mean... Turbo Mopar Contributor csxtra's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Jon,

    James is running a custom rear-wheel speed sensor, wired into the stock harness in place of the stock speed sensor and also providing the signal to the electronic speedometer. This custom setup emulates the stock speed sensor by creating roughly 8000 ground pulses per mile, so electrically the Logic module can't tell the difference between it and the stock speed sensor. We did this so we could do boost control based on actual vehicle speed, regardless of whether or not the front wheels have traction (i.e. boost doesn't increase if the front wheels lose traction, making it worse).

    As far as I know, both the early and late stock speed sensors all put out the same signal (roughly 8000 ground pulses per mile as long as you are using the correct color drive gear for your tire size), so aside from provisions for the mechanical drive cable (or any plug differences) they should be interchangeable, and should send the correct signal to your logic module and speedometer simultaneously.

    As an aside, the speed-based boost controller doesn't work directly from the speed sensor, it actually works off the serial data from the logic module because it needs TPS Voltage (WOT or not), vehicle speed, and knock retard to correctly determine the boost level.

    I hope this helps.

    Warren
    Warren Hall
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    87 CSX # 741
    317WHP - 380 WFt-Lbs (STD-5)
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  7. #67
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor minigts's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Quote Originally Posted by csxtra View Post
    Jon,

    James is running a custom rear-wheel speed sensor, wired into the stock harness in place of the stock speed sensor and also providing the signal to the electronic speedometer. This custom setup emulates the stock speed sensor by creating roughly 8000 ground pulses per mile, so electrically the Logic module can't tell the difference between it and the stock speed sensor. We did this so we could do boost control based on actual vehicle speed, regardless of whether or not the front wheels have traction (i.e. boost doesn't increase if the front wheels lose traction, making it worse).

    As far as I know, both the early and late stock speed sensors all put out the same signal (roughly 8000 ground pulses per mile as long as you are using the correct color drive gear for your tire size), so aside from provisions for the mechanical drive cable (or any plug differences) they should be interchangeable, and should send the correct signal to your logic module and speedometer simultaneously.

    As an aside, the speed-based boost controller doesn't work directly from the speed sensor, it actually works off the serial data from the logic module because it needs TPS Voltage (WOT or not), vehicle speed, and knock retard to correctly determine the boost level.

    I hope this helps.

    Warren
    It does help Warren, thanks for the detail. And I already ordered the electronic one, so we'll see!!! I also found another vendor selling gauges that are 1.1" thick, so going to see what options I have with fitment, placement and clearance using the stock "frame" of the cluster and then maybe get some of these. They are SpeedHut and look really good and can be very customized.


    Jon Trotter

    1985 Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned
    1987 Shelby GLHS, #937
    1987 Shelby Lancer, #628

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    I can be ready. Please send pics of wife.
    _____DodgeZ add comments here______

  8. #68
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Can anybody point out which bulb sockets on the back of the cluster are for backlighting?

    Also, which way they'd need to be oriented on the board for positive and negative? This is critical for LED lighting.

    I have my cluster out and was going to throw LED bulbs in it.
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
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    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  9. #69
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor minigts's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Mike, I just had to plug them in and apply power to the board, personally. As far as which are which, I can provide the rally cluster diagram if you like. Replacing the ones for the other bulbs won't hurt. I did them all just so I didn't have to remember which one went where. PM me if you want the rally cluster diagram and I'll post it up.


    Jon Trotter

    1985 Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned
    1987 Shelby GLHS, #937
    1987 Shelby Lancer, #628

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    I can be ready. Please send pics of wife.
    _____DodgeZ add comments here______

  10. #70
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor supercrackerbox's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    What I did was I wired two 6v flashlight batteries in series to apply 12v to each LED bulb and marked the negative and positive poles with red and black markers. Then I looked up the wiring diagram to find the positive and negative pins for the lighting circuit, and simply traced the circuits for each socket. Finally I hooked the batteries up to the cluster itself to verify everything worked.

  11. #71
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Bumped the wrong thread.
    Last edited by tryingbe; 12-07-2018 at 10:20 AM.

  12. #72
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    I've been thinking about this for YEARS. Being able to use a 3-wire hall effect sensor was #1, being able to use the newer style 3-wire hall effect sensor from an early Neon with the FCI (now Delphi, er, "APTIV") connector was #2.

    I don't know why, but when I saw this thread I really wanted to get something working.

    My requirements were simple:
    1. CHEAP
    2. ABSOLUTELY no modification to the speedometer itself (it's a GLHS part)
    3. Fits in the tight space behind the cluster

    I kept looking for more or less a flat pack stepper motor. I don't know why, but for some reason, THIS time I thought about the brushless DC motors in PC cooling fans. So, I found some scrap fans and I went around to taking them apart. I'll be damned if it didn't work quite nicely. With little modification the stator assembly fit down around the speedometer input shaft. Then, I cut a square profile into the fan shaft so it would fit the input square hole.

    IT VERKS!

    Pictures:


    Here's a pair of videos to show it working:
    https://youtu.be/Dq2vw7lGTZE
    https://youtu.be/ZhzBjXU4hdw

    So, next, I have to prove out that PWMing the +12V signal line adjusts the speed with the necessary fidelity. One thing that worries me is that there may not be enough torque at low speed to prevent "stall". I'll cut the blades off and that might help. We'll see where things go from here.

    Later,
    Jeff
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  13. #73
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Cool beans... Jeff!
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  14. #74
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo SOB View Post
    So, next, I have to prove out that PWMing the +12V signal line adjusts the speed with the necessary fidelity
    Get a Arduino to receive the VSS signal then send the PWN to the speedo.


  15. #75
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Get a Arduino to receive the VSS signal then send the PWN to the speedo.
    Exactly.... especially when Harry has code to share!!!
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  16. #76
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Electronic Speedo Options for L-Body

    Yeah, it "stalls" at 15 MPH. It's not really a problem with the speedometer, more of an issue with the electrically induced flux not being able to overcome the static flux of the iron-core stator. I even chopped all the blades off to reduce rotational mass.

    I'll try to switch it to a stepper style setup.

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