engine tilt

[wowzer]

from what i can tell the 2.2/2.5 engines are tilted back approximately 11-13 degrees. couple questions:

1) why was this done? clearance?
2) do i need to do the same with my 2.4 swap or should/can it be installed straight up?

[glhs875]

Need to consider axle alignment.

[Reaper1]

It might have been done for hood clearance as well as axle alignment. I honestly can't see why else it would be done, especially with the head oil drains in the front of the engine. I can't remember 100%, but I'm not sure that the Dakota engines have any tilt to them.

I am seriously contemplating standing my engine up a bit exactly for these 2 reasons. My car is low enough that the differential is below the axle line and I also think I might be able to gain a little ground clearance if the tranny rotates up enough. I haven't tried it yet to actually see for myself. If that does end up gaining me some ground clearance, then I will also look at either a totally custom oil pan, or a modded one.

One thing to seriously consider if you do this is crankcase breathing. Because you stand the engine up, you are also making the oil drainbacks work harder. Those serve 2 purposes in a stock engine, to let oil drain back to the pan AND to let pressure up to the head to escape out of the PCV system. If you block that path off, you stand a pretty good chance of pressurizing your engine and blowing oil all over the place at high rpm.

[jonnymopar]

From what I can tell visually, looking at how it sits in the cloud cars, the 2.4 is tilted back approximately the same amount as the 2.5, so you might want to retain that in your swap. There are several mount configurations (many of which use mixed-and-matched OEM parts) that will have the engine tilted correctly. I hope that JT (badassperformance) chimes up here because it seems like he did a lot of experimenting with mounts to get where he is now.

By the way, even the 2.0 in my Neon is tilted back.

I can't remember 100%, but I'm not sure that the Dakota engines have any tilt to them.

If they're not tilted in the direction they are in FWD configurations, they might be tilted front-to-back instead to accomplish the same thing you mentioned regarding oil drainback. What you said about that makes perfect sense to me.

[83scamp]

I can't remember 100%, but I'm not sure that the Dakota engines have any tilt to them.

The Dakota engines are tilted the same as the FWD cars. I used to have one...

It is also tilted front to rear to get the driveshaft angle correct. On the earliest ones with the carbed 2.2, they even did a special intake manifold so the carbs stayed level.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

lol
change the tilt of the engine and kiss your c/v joints goodbye

simply replaceing the front engine mount and not lineing up the through bolt in the isolater and bracket with it's old mark in the paint is enough to kill the c/v joints REALLY QUICK - like the first or second time you turn a corner

leave it as is

[bgbmxer]

Are the 2.4 jeeps tilted?

[GLHNSLHT2]

Stock is 13 degrees. IMSA daytona's were tilted to 6 degrees for better oil drain back, axle alignment and roll center advantages. Mine has a filled and re-drilled PB front mount that causes it to sit at 10 degrees. A regular PB mount will be more than 13 degrees which makes the axle alignment worse, not better. The only saving grace that keeps people from ejecting axles over each bump is that the mount doesn't move. Ed Peters used to say to have 1" of preload on the bobble strut to keep axles alive. I'd rather just have it moved via the front mount and keep my car from vibrating to death by trying to push it up at the back.

[wowzer]

from the allpar site for the 2.4 -- "The block is inclined to the right (rearward in the car) to allow the oil to drain from the head along the right face of the block."

[wheming]

Stock is 13 degrees. IMSA daytona's were tilted to 6 degrees for better oil drain back, axle alignment and roll center advantages. Mine has a filled and re-drilled PB front mount that causes it to sit at 10 degrees. A regular PB mount will be more than 13 degrees which makes the axle alignment worse, not better. The only saving grace that keeps people from ejecting axles over each bump is that the mount doesn't move. Ed Peters used to say to have 1" of preload on the bobble strut to keep axles alive. I'd rather just have it moved via the front mount and keep my car from vibrating to death by trying to push it up at the back.

Do you have any pics of what you did or measurements to replicate?

[GLHNSLHT2]

No don't think I even had a cell phone back then. Johnny had 10-12 filled so they had basically no hole. I then found a drill of similar diameter to the sleeve, and drilled it as close to the shoulder of the mount as I dared. Had to be careful not to squish the poly in the vise and just drill it slowly so it wouldn't grab and rip out of the vise. Then I just installed it like stock and that rocked the motor from 13 to 10 degrees. I run a MP pass mount, stock trans and a semi-solid bobble strut (hard mounted to the kframe, small bushings around the trans bracket). Nothing moves ever but there's no pre-load on the bobble strut so there is almost zero vibrations (can still see out the mirrors very clearly).

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

I'll add that the 87-9 J body converts had a damper shock on the trans and passenger side mounts
new they were really stiff

the mounts are slightly different as they have extra bits welded to them to mount the dampers

the 2 holes in the hook the trans mount fits up into in an 87-9 daytona are for mounting the trans side damper's upper mount bracket
the mount then has a position on the rear of it to take the lower damper bolt

pass side puts the da per on the mount entirely without anything else bolting to the structure of the car

[Ondonti]

I don't get the double talk here. One statement about tilting the engine up for better drainback and one that says drains are on the side that is tilted away from.

This does make me think of the 2.6L motors which are taller. Vigo can't keep from hitting the oil pan. Tilting the engine not only improved hood clearance, but also GROUND CLEARANCE.

[GLHNSLHT2]

some are talking about 2.4's and some are talking about 2.2/2.5's. They drain backs are on different sides of the engines for both.

[Reaper1]

Exactly...we are talking about two different engine families.

The old 2.2/2.5 has the oil drain back holes on the "front" or "left" side of the block. The 2.0/2.4 has them on the "back" or "right" side of the block.

I see the OP wants to do a 2.4 swap and was asking is they could reduce the amount of tilt. My personal opinion (emphasizing opinion) is that you could get away with it either way...as long as you paid attention to all the other little details.

As for axle alignment and the tilt of the engine...I could see that if you bottom the plunge joint out or you somehow got them at some really extreme angle, but CV's should live at the angles we are talking about easily. If you destroy CV's that fast, I tend to believe there is something else going on. Look at 4x4 trucks and the angles those CV's run at....just sayin'...

If you are running a solid front motor mount, DO NOT preload the drivetrain with the bobble strut! All you are doing is putting undue stress on the bobble strut, front motor mount, and associated brackets, etc., plus it WILL wear out the bushings and cause excessive vibration in the car. If you run all solid type mounts, you only need the bobble to be slightly snug. Making this one change in my set-up made a WORLD of difference in the car.

- - - Updated - - -

The Dakota engines are tilted the same as the FWD cars. I used to have one...

It is also tilted front to rear to get the driveshaft angle correct. On the earliest ones with the carbed 2.2, they even did a special intake manifold so the carbs stayed level.

Thanks for the correction! Much appreciated.

[OmniLuvr]

change the tilt of the engine and kiss your c/v joints goodbye

id say it depends on the "height" of the vehicle (is it lowered) and what "angle" your talking about. with my lowered daytona the axles were in an upward facing angle just at ride height, and would go through cv boots frequently!

by rotating the fwd engine forward, you will lift the trans "up" giving you a better axle angle for lowered vehicles. now if the engine is tilted differently from the timing area towards trans, and isnt "level", this will cause major axle problems (vibrations and premature wear). also, the problem ive had with my omni when trying to rotate the engine forward (with stock driver and pass mounts) is that the 2 mounts dont pivot in the same plane, so as you try to rotate the engine, you also get a little bit of "twist".