Whats the difference between the Saginaw power steering pump and the ZF Power Steering pump? Anyone have pics of the two? I'm not sure which one I have.
Whats the difference between the Saginaw power steering pump and the ZF Power Steering pump? Anyone have pics of the two? I'm not sure which one I have.
they are very different in appearanceOriginally Posted by BoostedDrummer
ZF = plastic reservoir
saginaw = metal can, looks like a ham can (pear shaped)
there are also some difference in the ZF pump depending on year..I think some have banjo fittings while others have crushed oring fittings or something
if you are looking for a ZF there are a few people that might have one, I just helped twon1977 get one..
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heres a ZF
The ZF was sought as secondary supplier because many other manufacturers were beginning to use them which further lowered the cost, due to volume sales.
In the long run, they were noisier and had a higher failure rate.
Any car I owned got converted over to Saginaw if it had a ZF. They were always loud and a pain to adjust.
Working on clearing the decks.
Weird that you say that Gary, I find the ZF pump WAY easier to adjust belt tension than the Saginaw. The ZF pump seems to have a far more robust front bearing and front seal, I believe it to be lighter, and of course it has advantages if using a large plenum intake manifold. OP, no L-body ever came with ZF pump stock. I would suggest building a heat shield for it if using the ATP swingvalve as the downpipe gets pretty close to the pump.
Todd
I value the silence of a Sag pump and belt adjustment is a snap, of course I do have a lot of practice doing a few thousand of them.
Working on clearing the decks.
Agreed
Thanks for the replies. The engine in my Omni came out of an '88 Shelby Z, and I remember vaguely that there was an issue with fitting the power steering pump doing the swap or something, I just can't recall since that was 6 years ago.. the reason I ask is because I am getting a large plenum intake manifold and was worried about it fitting and all. Since its going to be almost a straight drag car, I'm also thinking of a manual rack instead, since I dont think it'll be too hard to steer with a 2300 pound car. Torque steer might be a different story though
may want to try asking some of the folks who bought BMF's for their L-bodys. Some of them definitely have expertise as far as fitment so they may have some insight as to how the ZF will work out in there. For instance signsoflife22 (knownenemy on here).
For heat shield stuff, check out the material I've suggested (and used) for BMF intake shielding. Its cheap and thin refractory material that conducts heat very poorly and will never burn. Combined with a thin stainless foil reflector I think it makes a good shield when space space is limited.
edit: the foil is more like 0.002" thick, not 0.015" thick as mentioned in that post
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f321/f337/633538-2-2-2-5-big-plenum-26.html#post3377354
Last edited by acannell; 06-10-2015 at 10:51 AM.
Here is a couple pics of ZF pump w/large plenum manifold (not Asa's BMF intake). No way would Saginaw pump fit this plenum. The fill neck on the pump would not clear the intake, nor would the rear triangular rear bracket clear the downpipe. I used a nice big 4.5" radius pipe coming off the swingvalve. Good for flow, bad for clearance at the bottom of pump (lol). That is why the stainless heat shield was fabricated. If you want PS and are going to use a larger plenum intake, pretty sure you will need to use the ZF pump, or go a remote mounted electrical pump like the MR2 used. I believe Steve Calder had one installed on his TIII CSX many years ago.
Last edited by 4 l-bodies; 06-10-2015 at 12:01 PM.
Remember, the Saginaw is not as deep as the ZF when measuring depth from the bracket towards the driver side.
Regardless, even with the heat panels on the current ZF pump arrangement in the pictures, it's dangerously close.
hey 4LBodies I just noticed your thermal shield on the intake...that is VERY nice!
heres a pic showing how much more clearance you get with a ZF versus a saginaw
Yes it is close in the extreme corner on the shield but there is also an air gap of approx 1/2"" between the shield and the PS unit (unlike the TC shield), so it isn't as close as it first may first appear in pics. Since it has only two very small contact points between the pump and the shield it isn't going to transfer heat as if it was mounted flush to the back of the pump. Don't they always say that an air gap is the best insulator of all? I could have bent the shield a bit differently in this corner and increased the air gap, but it clears just fine.
Ken not sure where you are measuring, I have found the ZF pump offers far more clearance on the inboard side than the Saginaw pump, and doesn't require the rear brace at all, leaving much more room for your downpipe. I've probably seen more Chrysler ZF pumps without the rear brace than with (lol).
Todd
The factory thought it was ok to have a glowing red hot exhaust manifold next to a ZF pump with a small heat shield and no extra brace, I don't think Todd's downpipe get's nearly as hot.
If its glowing red, I'm sure its exceeding the engineering steady state 1650F rating of the parts.
Working on clearing the decks.
Weather or not you're on it hard enough to make it glow or just cruising down the road it's still hotter than Todd's downpipe. Go take a rip through the Adirondack hills and then pop your hood and see how your exhaust manny and turbo are glowing so red you swear you can see through them. All on even a stock vehicle. I doubt the engineers didn't know the stuff get's that hot.
The issue at this point involves several variables - not just absolute temp.
Although the Maserati reference pic shows the ZF being used with a heat shield and within proximity of the exhaust... These were production test/design environments of a 12psi/low compression configuration.
If the thought is that a stainless down pipe will be cooler in a performance application, that may require reconsideration.
Where most of these applications require enriched fuel to keep upstream temps under control, this pushes the flame-front further down the exhaust along with the heat that comes with it.
This all ignores the near contact of the down pipe versus the 1-2" clearance of the mild Maserati operating conditions.
Regarding the available pump clearance, I disregarded the extension housing vs the over-all thickness of the reservoir.
Although, this brings up a great point of interest.. The ZF pump exposes the pump alone with minimal fluid when compared to the fluid encapsulated housing of the Saginaw.
Even though it will not package in this environment, the Saginaw packaging does come with it's metal vs plastic and fluid encapsulated benefits.
Again and regardless, the available air gaps on the Maserati application clearly exceed whats being attempted with the 8V.
All items considered, the performance application of the pictured arrangement still raises concern regarding the desired operating conditions of the pump and it's plastic housing.
I don't believe there's anyone that wishes it to fail while we all hopefully embrace each others success.
When it comes to safety, the only shame would be not saying anything at all.
I have worked on thousands of turbo cars, the only ones that had glowing turbos and manifolds were units that the cam/distributor timing were off.
Mind you I'm talking STOCK.
As the factory designed them and as they went out the door, not after they had been modded one way or another which changes many things.
Working on clearing the decks.
That ZF heat shield looks great. The vast majority of heat the ZF will experience right there is radiant, and it looks like that shield blocks it. A little bit of blanket/refractory material on the pump side of the shield would snip off re-radiated heat from the shield as well. And then you'd still have your 1/2" of air insulation. Maybe connect the shield via something thick, short, and aluminum or copper, directly to the intake plenum, and that would really pump heat out of the shield, specially when there is alot of air flow and it needs it the most
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