Piston ID

[homelessduck]

Hey guys. I am hoping someone can ID these pistons..They are from a 1987 2.2l. This is the only picture I have :


http://i60.tinypic.com/106dpiq.jpg



Thanks.

Found more pics. Also , if anyone could ID the rods...lol. I know I am asking for a lot

[2.216VTurbo]

Factory turbo TI (not TII Mahles) cast crank, TI lightweight rods Whittier Shelby vintage. Say 87 Shelby Lancer or CSX maybe? Both pics are the worst angle to ID the pats. Pistons from the sides or underside showing the crowns and skirts and rods from the sides showing both the big and little ends would be optimal...

EDIT: I see the skirt in the last pic now, 2.2 for sure...

[GLHS60]

I don't think those are factory pistons but a closer look might prove me wrong. I'm not sure about 1986, but 1987 on T-I pistons are also Mahle although press fit, in any engines I've taken apart. Mahle is cast in the piston inside, near the pin boss.

Thanks
Randy

[homelessduck]

I determined the pistons are MP cast pistons , and cracked to hell ! Here is another picture of the rods :



Also, isn't 87-on supposed to be tii and have cross drilling in the block and head ? My 87 turbo engine is not cross drilled. I have a lot of questions regarding the cross drilling, perhaps I should post a separate thread for that ?

Thanks !

[GLHS60]

1987 and newer T-II's were crossdrilled but not 2.2 T-I 's.
From 1989 and newer all Turbo engines were crossdrilled including 2.5 T-I's.
Even some N/A engines were crossdrilled after 1991.

I wouldn't be surprised if the M.P. cast pistons are actually Hypereutectic, even the last M.P. advertised premium forged were Hypers .

Thanks
Randy

[ajakeski]

Only Turbo II engines were cross drilled in 1987.
I have run both cross drilled and non cross drilled engines without any problems. Cross drilling lowers deck temperature significantly, but they had a habit of clogging if the cooling system isn't well maintained.
Whether you need it or not depends on the boost pressure you plan to run.
Personally, I would invest in a set of TII rods and good pistons first.
You can also use 1985 turbo rods, they are the same size as the later TII rods with a different cap. The caps on your thin TI rods are stronger and can be swapped to the '85 rods to make them comprable to TII rods. If you do the cap swap, buy new bolts and have the rods resized to ensure the ends are true.
Your cast crank is good for 250 horse. It's also lighter than a forged crank and will spin up faster.

[GLHS60]

I would never suggest trying to swap rod caps to a new guy, or even someone experienced.
Most machinists will agree, and not want to recon any rod with mis-matched caps.


Thanks
Randy

[acannell]

I would never suggest trying to swap rod caps to a new guy, or even someone experienced.
Most machinists will agree, and not want to recon any rod with mis-matched caps.


Thanks
Randy

Dont they recut the mating surfaces of the cap and rod, then bore out the new ID? Why would there be a problem?

If they arent making new mating surfaces, I could see that being an issue. They wont be in-plane with each other.

[homelessduck]

Wow, thanks for all of the information ! I posted here about a year ago about the 1987 Shelby Lancer that I picked up needing to be honed due to improper break in. Well, I am just now tearing in to it. The pistons were all grenaded. Whoever built it used an 006 head gasket on the non cross drilled block, which I'm guessing caused detonation..? The car is a true whittier car, #662. The block numbers match the VIN, soo... What the heck? Shouldn't it have a tii block/internals ?

[GLHS60]

Shelby built GLHS's and Lancers were actually 2.2 T-I cars converted to intercooled status so they weren't T-II engines internally. Using the 006 head gasket certainly isn't recommended but some have used them on non cross drilled engines. I'm guessing your problems are more related to Hypereutectic pistons and their extreme sensitivity to any detonation more likely related to tune up, low grade fuel, excessive boost etc. The 006 certainly didn't help but regular stock Mahles will take much more abuse than any other cast piston. I haven't seen your ring lands but I can imagine they are very shattered. Hypers can shatter in an instant if there is any hint of detonation. Many pistons advertised as cast were in fact Hypers and although they are often used successfully in other engines they can be a real problem in our engines. I'm just guessing but there are probably more Hyper pistons sold in one day for small block Chevys than 2.2's over many years, so if we got a bad batch to start with there isn't enough volume to make improvements. As mentioned M.P. used to sell a premium forged piston that I'm positive was a TRW but were replaced with Hypers when they ran out. Hopefully you can find some Mahles in your bore size, even used, or some forged if you plan on running it very hard. Although T-II pistons are full floating they can be used on non floating rods if desired. Post some more pictures and share your intentions!!

Thanks
Randy

[GLHS60]

Dont they recut the mating surfaces of the cap and rod, then bore out the new ID? Why would there be a problem?

If they arent making new mating surfaces, I could see that being an issue. They wont be in-plane with each other.

As you probably know its recommended to resize rods if the bolts are changed as alignment of the cap and rod "can" be out afterwards. Checking a rod big end before and after changing bolts will confirm this. Installing another cap "could" be accommodated but they are always out of position. If the cap is off to one side or diagonally they can be trued by surfacing the sides of the rod, narrowing the big end however much it takes. If the cap overhangs the rod inside bore, and it will, this will require grinding the cap and rod mating surfaces like you mentioned, enough to make the bore small enough to resize. On a normal resize, often a small cut on the cap is enough to make the bore true after honing. Mismatched caps always require excessive cutting on the rod and cap to get the bore true and the possibility of a short rod is usually the result. While it is possible, machinists mostly don't want any part of this as it can take a lot of time to make a substandard rod. Main caps are much more easily replaced if necessary.

Thanks
Randy

[ajakeski]

I've done the rod cap swap a couple times and the shop never had any issue with risizing the rods.

[GLHS60]

I've done the rod cap swap a couple times and the shop never had any issue with risizing the rods.

I cant argue with a successful swap. I've been saving LW caps for years and haven't found any close enough to work well on a early rod.

Thanks
Randy

[homelessduck]

I don't know how anyone could get away with running an 006 on a non cross drilled block , considering it completely blocks off those coolant passages. I definitely wouldn't purposely do it. I would like to go all out with the build but it's really only going to be a daily driver for my wife so I will probably just do something mild. So the next best thing to forged pistons are Mahles ? Any others ? As far as having it cross drilled ... I will either have them cross drill the block or toss an 005 on it. I really just need this car driveable at the moment. But I would hate to not put together a solid platform for fun down the road... so I don't know what I'm going to do yet.

Here's one of the pistons :

[homelessduck]

So what non-forged pistons would you guys recommend?

[ajakeski]

Sealed Power 533P. Lots of people have good luck running these.
Summit has them for less than $90 for a set of four.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sl...MobileSwitchNo

[acannell]

Sealed Power 533P. Lots of people have good luck running these.
Summit has them for less than $90 for a set of four.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sl...MobileSwitchNo

would you recommend the same brand for a 2.5L turbo in the 350hp area? are they better or worse than the cast mahles?

[ajakeski]

The 533P is supposed to be a non-hyper cast piston fpr the 2.2. I don't think there is a non-hyper cast piston for the 2.5 made anymore. I couldn't find any when I built my 2.5 so I used Wisecos.
A good set of cast Mahles would be better.

[unluckyty]

Sealed Power 533P. Lots of people have good luck running these.
Summit has them for less than $90 for a set of four.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sl...MobileSwitchNo

Just put a set of these in my SL short block I am rebuilding. The are cast, but the quality compared to the stock Mahle, are not as good, as far as the finished casting.

greg

[homelessduck]

I apologize for my ignorance... Are the ones you linked for a factory bore ? Mine is .020 over.

Thanks !