97 Neon brakes won't lock up

[cordes]

I have re-bled the brakes. I have fixed a leaking line. I'm fairly certain that it must be MC related now. If I stomp on the brakes the car will stop pretty quickly, but I'm using all the pedal travel and the car should probably be able to lock up the brakes?

Any ideas? How do I tell if the car originally was an ABS car? There are certainly more lines running to the MC than the two that go to our older TMs. I think there are four going to this one so I'm guessing that they may not be using a separate prop valve?

[bfarroo]

My experience has been that if the car has ABS and you activate it you will know it, you hear a growling and can feel the pulsing in the pedal. How are you bleeding the brakes? I've had issues where using a vacuum bleader would not get a good pedal feel and had to go to the tried and true two person pump and bleed method.

[acannell]

I have re-bled the brakes. I have fixed a leaking line. I'm fairly certain that it must be MC related now. If I stomp on the brakes the car will stop pretty quickly, but I'm using all the pedal travel and the car should probably be able to lock up the brakes?

Any ideas? How do I tell if the car originally was an ABS car? There are certainly more lines running to the MC than the two that go to our older TMs. I think there are four going to this one so I'm guessing that they may not be using a separate prop valve?

I dont think the ABS system will ever allow the brakes to lock up, especially at maximum effort. ???

[cordes]

My experience has been that if the car has ABS and you activate it you will know it, you hear a growling and can feel the pulsing in the pedal. How are you bleeding the brakes? I've had issues where using a vacuum bleader would not get a good pedal feel and had to go to the tried and true two person pump and bleed method.

I have brand new speed bleeders on the front and I've done the old hose in a jar of fluid trick in the back. At this point I think air in the system is a low probability scenario.

I dont think the ABS system will ever allow the brakes to lock up, especially at maximum effort. ???

I know that this car has always locked up the brakes for me in the ice etc. I've never had to work on an ABS car though so I really have no idea what to look for in case something is amiss.

[turbovanman²]

Look for sensors, old wiring, toner rings on the axles etc.

How are you bleeding it?

[cordes]

My experience has been that if the car has ABS and you activate it you will know it, you hear a growling and can feel the pulsing in the pedal. How are you bleeding the brakes? I've had issues where using a vacuum bleader would not get a good pedal feel and had to go to the tried and true two person pump and bleed method.

I dont think the ABS system will ever allow the brakes to lock up, especially at maximum effort. ???

Look for sensors, old wiring, toner rings on the axles etc.

How are you bleeding it?

I'm not seeing anything which is indicative of ABS, but I don't really know what to look for on the neons. I know it doesn't have the rings on the axles.

I'm bleeding the fronts by using the speed bleeders which I just picked up. For the rears I'm using a hose going into a jar of brake fluid. I'm pretty certain that I've got all the air out.

[black86glhs]

Either air trapped in the MC or pressure is bleeding off by bypassing the cups in the MC.

[Aries_Turbo]

internally collapsed hoses was my 97 neons problem.

brian

[black86glhs]

internally collapsed hoses was my 97 neons problem.

brian

This too!!

[cordes]

My experience has been that if the car has ABS and you activate it you will know it, you hear a growling and can feel the pulsing in the pedal. How are you bleeding the brakes? I've had issues where using a vacuum bleader would not get a good pedal feel and had to go to the tried and true two person pump and bleed method.

I dont think the ABS system will ever allow the brakes to lock up, especially at maximum effort. ???

internally collapsed hoses was my 97 neons problem.

brian

I've had that also, but it caused the brakes to stay locked up.

[shadow88]

Was anything else done at the same time? ie rotors, new pads ect?

[cordes]

My experience has been that if the car has ABS and you activate it you will know it, you hear a growling and can feel the pulsing in the pedal. How are you bleeding the brakes? I've had issues where using a vacuum bleader would not get a good pedal feel and had to go to the tried and true two person pump and bleed method.

I dont think the ABS system will ever allow the brakes to lock up, especially at maximum effort. ???

Was anything else done at the same time? ie rotors, new pads ect?

Yep. New rotors and pads.

[Aries_Turbo]

did you take the rubber boots for the sliders out of the caliper and clean out the rust that pinches the boot and doesnt allow the slider to slide? that and use brake lube rather than grease for the sliders?

ive seen that make neon brakes terrible.

Brian

[cordes]

I used some proper lube on the sliders. One of the calipers is actually new. I can't see the other sliders binding on the caliper pins. They can be removed and installed very easily.

[Aries_Turbo]

then that isnt the issue

Brian

[turbovanman²]

What pads did you buy? I've run into cheapo or crappy quality pads cause all kinds of issues, and stopping is one of them, lol.

[shadow88]

^^ For sure on some pads just not seating in very well.

Were the rotors replaced and did they have the proper finish on them, or were they machined and possibly not a good finish? I've seen this prevent good brake feel and do almost exactly what you describe.

Long shot guess..... The new caliper, the bleeder screw is on the top, right? I know you know better, but we have all made mistakes on the basics.

[cordes]

Thermoquiet pads on some fancy looking slotted rotors. Bleeder screw is on the top (I've done that wrong before). It sure sounds like the pads are biting the rotors well. The car stops pretty normally, it's just that when I give it all the pedal has it won't lock up. I think I'll try a new MC and go from there. I sure hope that the Kroil I've sprayed on the lines does its thing so that I don't have to redo the lines at the MC also.

[shadow88]

I looked at an old picture of my 95 neon that had abs and it only has two lines coming from the passenger side of the MC.
Was the problem there before the leaky line repair? I wonder if you can just remove and bleed the MC that's already there if it ran dry, then re-do the rest of the brakes in order.

[cordes]

I don't think it would have locked them up before the repair as I needed to use almost all the travel for effective stopping. I just figured that the last bit would have done it. I may try to bleed the MC that's on there and go at it again.