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Thread: Staging Brake

  1. #21
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    Re: Staging Brake

    No not at all. It's to be used with the existing rear calipers while maintaining the ability to use the foot brake during regular driving. The drift scene is pretty popular with this type of setup. I believe theres a valve of some sort inside the handbrake itself that doesn't allow brake pressure to push toward the master cylinder when pulled. But when it's not pulled, that same valve is opened to allow the brake pressure from the master cylinder to flow, through the staging brake, and to the rear calipers via the foot brake.

  2. #22
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    Re: Staging Brake

    I guess you're right.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=drif...active&ssui=on

    All of those diagrams look like you will need to eliminate the prop valve, though, and maybe run a rear bias adjuster instead. They all seem to be based on a front/rear split system instead of a diagonal factory system.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Staging Brake

    I'm thinking I can do multiple tees into the rear brakes by branching them off into the stagin brake and the re-running them back into their original lines. I just need a brake diagram for a dodge omni but cant seem to turn one up anywhere

  4. #24
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    Re: Staging Brake

    You can. Its just safety nazi rule to not defeat the safety function if having a "backup" if one half of system fails. I have to do the same thing you are thinking about.
    Just never had time. Been needing to do it for 6+ years.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 04-22-2015 at 06:17 AM.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  5. #25
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    Re: Staging Brake

    If you tee into the rear lines you'll need to add a shuttle valve. This will prevent fluid from the hand brake going back to the master cylinder and vice versa.


  6. #26
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    Re: Staging Brake

    I don't think that will be necessary. The handbrake itself has a seal inside it that, once pulled, doesn't allow brake pressure to flow through the line, through the handbrake, and to the cars master cylinder. When you pull the handbrake, theres a dual piston setup that is spring operated. When you pull back the handle, the rod pushes the internal assembly bacwards which pushes the first piston and seal against the feed line from the cars master cylinder, essentially blocking off any pressure being fed from the car/foot pedal. The piston is then held there by a spring on top of it being pushed by the rod assembly and the driver pulling the handle. The second piston then pushes all the fluid thats inside the handbrakes master cylinder OUT toward the rear calipers. When the handbrake is released, the fluid from the caliper flows back through the handbrake and back to the cars master cylinder when the spring releases its tension on the piston seal.

  7. #27
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    Re: Staging Brake

    So if I'm understanding it right, that handbrake is plumped in series with the system? Brake pressure from the master cylinder flows through the handbrake on the way to the rear brakes?

  8. #28
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    Re: Staging Brake

    When you are on the footbrake, the brake fluid flows through the handbrake as if it werent even there. It's an in-line design. The more I look at it and type about it (oddly enough) the more I understand it. I'll make some quick diagrams to illustrate what it does on our cars, as I can barely find any GOOD write ups anywhere else on the net.

  9. #29
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Staging Brake

    If the master cylinder or proportioning valve can act as a check valve, then adding it in-line (once the "line" is just to the back), then it should work as expected. Adding a check valve in-line wouldn't work as it would not allow the pressure to relieve once applied...

    One possibility may be that the combination valve (what we generally call a proportioning valve), has a safety shut off built into it, which is supposed to shuttle over to one side to seal off one side should a line break. That might function as the check valve, but only if it freely resets when the pressure is relieved...

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  10. #30
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by BoostedDrummer View Post
    When you are on the footbrake, the brake fluid flows through the handbrake as if it werent even there. It's an in-line design. The more I look at it and type about it (oddly enough) the more I understand it. I'll make some quick diagrams to illustrate what it does on our cars, as I can barely find any GOOD write ups anywhere else on the net.
    Ah gotcha! Yup, you wouldn't need a shuttle valve in that case.

    Quote Originally Posted by zin View Post
    One possibility may be that the combination valve (what we generally call a proportioning valve), has a safety shut off built into it, which is supposed to shuttle over to one side to seal off one side should a line break. That might function as the check valve, but only if it freely resets when the pressure is relieved...

    Mike
    That might be how it's designed, although unfortunately when you lose one half of the circuit, the car is still scary to stop.

  11. #31
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Alright guys, it took ALL day, but I finally finished making this video explaining just how a hydraulic handbrake works. The hardest part was making the animations for brake fluid flow using microsoft paint.. ugh

    Anyways, here ya go!

  12. #32
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    Re: Staging Brake

    BTW, the other thing that you can do when you tie them together is add in a single proportion valve so you can balance your front to rear braking. Something that is very off on anyone's car with vented rears.
    I plan on doing this as well. I wonder if the handbrakes I looked up years ago even exist. There was the CNC but also one that looked like a normal handbrake (it could lock and everything).
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  13. #33
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    Re: Staging Brake

    I think I should be fine with this setup, although it is entirely trial and error since nobody has really done a write up on how to install or use one of these bad boys. I don't have the vented setup on the rear, just the solid ones lol. I know these staffing brakes are pretty popular with the DSM crowd and the Honda guys. It really seems to help save axles by holding the car back and slipping the clutch to pre load everything. I'll be installing mine sometime in the next two weeks or so. Hopefully before I run at Import Showdown. The CNC brake is still around, but you'd be hard pressed in finding a site that sells them. I find a few, but they looked sketchy lol

  14. #34
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by BoostedDrummer View Post
    I think I should be fine with this setup, although it is entirely trial and error since nobody has really done a write up on how to install or use one of these bad boys. I don't have the vented setup on the rear, just the solid ones lol. I know these staffing brakes are pretty popular with the DSM crowd and the Honda guys. It really seems to help save axles by holding the car back and slipping the clutch to pre load everything. I'll be installing mine sometime in the next two weeks or so. Hopefully before I run at Import Showdown. The CNC brake is still around, but you'd be hard pressed in finding a site that sells them. I find a few, but they looked sketchy lol
    That might mean they don't. I tried to buy the old suspension techniques springs from two different sites and ended up getting my money back. One of them looked really sketchy but they refunded me the moment they couldn't fulfill the order.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  15. #35
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Shadow said he had installed one after I bugged him to do it. He never shared any pictures and I don't think he liked using it.

    You can nix the safety stuff. Could.

    Well Late to the party......as usual! lol

    I did install one of these in the Charger and I don't remember saying I "didn't like it". What I think I said is I don't know if it's helping any with launch/ axle longevity? (if memory serves)

    One thing I really liked about it is when you're on a track with uneven launching surface. Right at staging where you can sometime "roll out" of the staging lights. That doesn't happen to me anymore with the staging brake

    Now for install, I just ran the rear line into the staging brake cyl, then out the other end to the rear brakes. Was pretty simple, but you really have to make sure you bleed it well or you can get a funky "feel" to the brakes from air in the system as it passes through that staging brake cyl.

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  16. #36
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Staging Brake = Shadow approved

  17. #37
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Well Late to the party......as usual! lol

    I did install one of these in the Charger and I don't remember saying I "didn't like it". What I think I said is I don't know if it's helping any with launch/ axle longevity? (if memory serves)

    One thing I really liked about it is when you're on a track with uneven launching surface. Right at staging where you can sometime "roll out" of the staging lights. That doesn't happen to me anymore with the staging brake

    Now for install, I just ran the rear line into the staging brake cyl, then out the other end to the rear brakes. Was pretty simple, but you really have to make sure you bleed it well or you can get a funky "feel" to the brakes from air in the system as it passes through that staging brake cyl.
    So how are your brakes plumbed? Tee'd the rears together or just ran the brake on one rear brake or you have your brakes set front and rear?
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  18. #38
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    So how are your brakes plumbed? Tee'd the rears together or just ran the brake on one rear brake or you have your brakes set front and rear?
    I have the adjustable Wilwood prop valve which send 1 run to the rear. (adjustable) That line runs through the staging brake and then splits evenly to Both rear disc brakes.

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  19. #39
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    I have the adjustable Wilwood prop valve which send 1 run to the rear. (adjustable) That line runs through the staging brake and then splits evenly to Both rear disc brakes.
    Basically like this?

  20. #40
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    Re: Staging Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    I have the adjustable Wilwood prop valve which send 1 run to the rear. (adjustable) That line runs through the staging brake and then splits evenly to Both rear disc brakes.
    You swapped out the entire master cylinder to save weight right?
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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