sooooooo the bmf intake

[crusty shadow]

I doubt that is going to happen- remember how cheap we all are?

pretty much seals it for me- not interested.

[acannell]

I doubt that is going to happen- remember how cheap we all are?

pretty much seals it for me- not interested.

You doubt people will race the cars they are building, or dyno them for tuning? Why?

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1076575

[Vigo]

Butthurt before data, dawg.

ITS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING

[black86glhs]

Butthurt before data, dawg.

ITS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING

To be 10 yrs old again, dawg.

[Reaper1]

This manifold was the product of pretty much the exact customer base it was intended for. The customers designed it!! Crusty, I would love to see what you come up with, then GIVE it to somebody and let them keep it so that you can sell the same part to other people making very little profit. You won't do that. Why should Acannell?

Seriously...you are using the whole "I'm taking my ball and going home" mentality. How many parts have you bought for your car not knowing what the result would be? Did you KNOW that the 3" exhaust was going to make power? Did you want that exhaust for free if you tested it?

[crusty shadow]

This manifold was the product of pretty much the exact customer base it was intended for. The customers designed it!! Crusty, I would love to see what you come up with, then GIVE it to somebody and let them keep it so that you can sell the same part to other people making very little profit. You won't do that. Why should Acannell?

Seriously...you are using the whole "I'm taking my ball and going home" mentality. How many parts have you bought for your car not knowing what the result would be? Did you KNOW that the 3" exhaust was going to make power? Did you want that exhaust for free if you tested it?

I was done with this thread until I saw this post, I had to reply.


were did you get from my post that I was expecting him to give me a manifold in exchange for nothing? I offered to thoroughly test his manifold on the dyno- not just one or 2 pulls but at least a dozen or so comparing his to other manifolds on the same car. Dyno time runs $100-$150 an hour- he would be looking at $2000 in rental time plus materials cost of gaskets, fluids etc. $2000+ of dyno time in exchange for a $430 manifold that he probably has $250 or so in materials cost is one hell of a deal.

"taking my ball and going home"? im not the one with the ball here - that would be Asa. He turned his nose up at my offer and told me to buy his stuff and test it my own damn self if I want to see whether or not it actually works. When he declined that would have been him taking his ball and going home.

I have bought ZERO parts for my car that I didn't know what the results would be, nobody else with any common sense would either. FWD and TU do in fact test almost all the products they sell, if you don't think that's the case then you definitely don't understand how the consumer products industry actually works. Even the 5 dollar toasters they sell at walmart are tested at some point to make sure they will actually toast bread..


I asked some very legit questions and I get ganged up on by several members here in response who are all more or less telling me im an a**hole for even having the nerve to speak. The elitist culture here make me really glad there is more than one forum for these cars, I can only take so much before I have to back away and take a breather due to frustration.

[acannell]

I was done with this thread until I saw this post, I had to reply.


were did you get from my post that I was expecting him to give me a manifold in exchange for nothing? I offered to thoroughly test his manifold on the dyno- not just one or 2 pulls but at least a dozen or so comparing his to other manifolds on the same car. Dyno time runs $100-$150 an hour- he would be looking at $2000 in rental time plus materials cost of gaskets, fluids etc. $2000+ of dyno time in exchange for a $430 manifold that he probably has $250 or so in materials cost is one hell of a deal.

"taking my ball and going home"? im not the one with the ball here - that would be Asa. He turned his nose up at my offer and told me to buy his stuff and test it my own damn self if I want to see whether or not it actually works. When he declined that would have been him taking his ball and going home.

I have bought ZERO parts for my car that I didn't know what the results would be, nobody else with any common sense would either. FWD and TU do in fact test almost all the products they sell, if you don't think that's the case then you definitely don't understand how the consumer products industry actually works. Even the 5 dollar toasters they sell at walmart are tested at some point to make sure they will actually toast bread..


I asked some very legit questions and I get ganged up on by several members here in response who are all more or less telling me im an a**hole for even having the nerve to speak. The elitist culture here make me really glad there is more than one forum for these cars, I can only take so much before I have to back away and take a breather due to frustration.

As I've said before, people will be racing and dynoing the BMF intake and posting up the results, just like they always do with new builds. Turning down your offer doesn't mean I'm doing anything wrong, and that you think you can somehow force the outcome you want by arguing that I have no valid option to turn it down is disturbing. Frankly I don't trust you. The idea that you think someone would respond positively to your entitled demands is a red flag to say the least.

[glhs727]

I was done with this thread until I saw this post, I had to reply.


were did you get from my post that I was expecting him to give me a manifold in exchange for nothing? I offered to thoroughly test his manifold on the dyno- not just one or 2 pulls but at least a dozen or so comparing his to other manifolds on the same car. Dyno time runs $100-$150 an hour- he would be looking at $2000 in rental time plus materials cost of gaskets, fluids etc. $2000+ of dyno time in exchange for a $430 manifold that he probably has $250 or so in materials cost is one hell of a deal.

"taking my ball and going home"? im not the one with the ball here - that would be Asa. He turned his nose up at my offer and told me to buy his stuff and test it my own damn self if I want to see whether or not it actually works. When he declined that would have been him taking his ball and going home.

I have bought ZERO parts for my car that I didn't know what the results would be, nobody else with any common sense would either. FWD and TU do in fact test almost all the products they sell, if you don't think that's the case then you definitely don't understand how the consumer products industry actually works. Even the 5 dollar toasters they sell at walmart are tested at some point to make sure they will actually toast bread..


I asked some very legit questions and I get ganged up on by several members here in response who are all more or less telling me im an a**hole for even having the nerve to speak. The elitist culture here make me really glad there is more than one forum for these cars, I can only take so much before I have to back away and take a breather due to frustration.

Frankly back to back testing on a dyno in exchange for a $250 manifold sounds like a generous offer . If real data proved your intake was the bomb, you would likely sell more. If you are worried about giving one away, and getting no data, then sell him one and refund his money once he posts results. The line that you don't need this data because you already sold a bunch... well you did sell a bunch but NO ONE as of yet has done any testing, so having this generous offer to do the testing for you for a minimal amount sounds like a win win.....

[acannell]

Frankly back to back testing on a dyno in exchange for a $250 manifold sounds like a generous offer . If real data proved your intake was the bomb, you would likely sell more. If you are worried about giving one away, and getting no data, then sell him one and refund his money once he posts results. The line that you don't need this data because you already sold a bunch... well you did sell a bunch but NO ONE as of yet has done any testing, so having this generous offer to do the testing for you for a minimal amount sounds like a win win.....

I don't do business with people who make entitled demands, do you Cindy?

Why is the BMF intake assigned a value of $250, because thats what you two think my cost is (apparently machining labor and months of R&D are worthless), but dyno time is somehow valued at full retail? How about I get dyno time at "his cost", so what, electricity, and a days rent?

And you'll be sending out free camshafts to whoever demands them from you, as long as they give you what they think is a good deal on dyno testing, right Cindy? How much does an F4 cost you Cindy? Dont include any time you spent developing it, just your material cost when you buy them in bulk. How about your $490 ported 2 piece intake? Will you be sending him one of those as well? The way I see it, thats only worth maybe $100 for a junkyard intake and maybe $100 for porting. Thats fair in my opinion, so I guess that makes it a good deal. And since I'm demanding it, that makes you want to work with me, right?

[Mr overkill]

Wow acannell sorry for asking a question and having all this brought up. I should have just pm you

[acannell]

Wow acannell sorry for asking a question and having all this brought up. I should have just pm you

No problem at all Mr overkill. I don't have any trouble addressing these concerns. I am here to answer any and all BMF questions.

He turned his nose up at my offer and told me to buy his stuff and test it my own damn self if I want to see whether or not it actually works. When he declined that would have been him taking his ball and going home.

I am not the one who told you to test it yourself, a BMF customer told you that. I have a right to decline offers from people I don't trust, and I certainly don't trust you. Your communications with me on this subject have been hostile, demanding, and entitled. Why would I want to work with you in any capacity?

I am not trying to prevent the BMF intake from being tested. I just don't want to work with you, crusty shadow, for OBVIOUS reasons that should be apparent to anyone.

I have been a proponent of BMF testing since the R&D days. I started this thread in November:

Should I be doing more BMF intake testing?

The overall reaction was to just let the customers do the testing. They will have the builds that are appropriate for the BMF, and the data will be more reliable and thorough coming from multiple people across multiple build types.

If someone I trusted and enjoyed working with offered to do back to back dyno testing or track testing, I'd consider sending them a free one. BMF intakes are not cheap for me to produce, either in time, or material, plus I have a production schedule that I am trying to actually meet this time, unlike the first group buy, which went way over schedule.

Its hard for me to believe that with 20+ BMF intakes in the hands of customers, some for several months, that at least one of them wont be hitting the track or the dyno VERY soon. Anyone who wants to wait is free to do so. There are around 10 BMF intakes left in the group buy, so theres no rush.

[tryingbe]

I bought BMF intake because, look at it, it's a work of art.

Hopefully, I'll have everything I need from Chris to put my car back in a few weeks. No, there will not be a back to back test from me.

[acannell]

I bought BMF intake, barbecue, look at it, it's a work of art.

Hopefully, I'll have everything I need from Chris to put my car back in a few weeks. No, there will not be a back to back test from me.

I'm glad you are enjoying the barbecue edition!

As far as back-to-back testing, dont we have enough accumulated data in TD land to know what a ported 2 piece runs in pretty much any build? Not that back to back testing wouldnt be nice. But the idea here is for big gains over a ported 2 piece, on a big build, so it should be pretty obvious if thats achieved, I would think.

BTW I have been able to swap a BMF and a 1 piece intake, in-car, in a 90 Daytona. Its not fun, but it is possible. At least with a 0.63 chrysler housing, stock exhaust mani, and modified manifold bolts to clear certain things.

[tryingbe]

I'm glad you are enjoying the barbecue edition!

As far as back-to-back testing, dont we have enough accumulated data in TD land to know what a ported 2 piece runs in pretty much any build? Not that back to back testing wouldnt be nice. But the idea here is for big gains over a ported 2 piece, on a big build, so it should be pretty obvious if thats achieved, I would think.

Damn auto correct.

As far as I know, there is no back to back test with numbers on 1 piece vs 2 piece either. Just butt dynos experiences.

[dwh4784]

There's a few things like that. I've always used a one piece and think it works just fine, but when the power train is out to do the clutch and turbo upgrade I'll slap a two piece on it and since I'm changing multiple things have no real idea what gains it made if any. Also .48 vs .63 housings. I'm not sure I've ever seen definitive back to back results, and while I'm getting the .63 and believe it will outperform my .48 I've read posts where people say the .48 is more than adequate. So who the barbecue knows.

[glhs727]

I don't do business with people who make entitled demands, do you Cindy?

Why is the BMF intake assigned a value of $250, because thats what you two think my cost is (apparently machining labor and months of R&D are worthless), but dyno time is somehow valued at full retail? How about I get dyno time at "his cost", so what, electricity, and a days rent?

And you'll be sending out free camshafts to whoever demands them from you, as long as they give you what they think is a good deal on dyno testing, right Cindy? How much does an F4 cost you Cindy? Dont include any time you spent developing it, just your material cost when you buy them in bulk. How about your $490 ported 2 piece intake? Will you be sending him one of those as well? The way I see it, thats only worth maybe $100 for a junkyard intake and maybe $100 for porting. Thats fair in my opinion, so I guess that makes it a good deal. And since I'm demanding it, that makes you want to work with me, right?

I don't know how you consider that an an entitled demand. Someone asked for any testing data because he was interested in buying one. You throw out a thread asking if anyone of the 30 or so people that bought one to post up results. NOT one posted up, then this guy said he would be willing to do the testing including expensive dyno time and BACK to BACK testing from a ported 2 piece, not just a single result from bolting on BMF which actually doesn't tell the whole story like a b2b test. I don't know how he is entitled..??
We are a small company, and started in our garage, yet we GAVE both Shadow and Warren a FREE f4 cam to test with with no strings attached to get a unbiased opinion and real world results even if it took years for that info to actually make its way to the forums.... so I'm just saying that even if you are a small company, the $250 or $500 or whatever the current pricing you invest is worth getting $2000 in testing on your product. BTW part of developing is testing. Good ideas developed don't always turn out to be good ideas once tested... I'm not trying to knock you or your product, I like some of the things you are doing but I don't understand your resistance to having a REAL test done.

[Shadow]

I don't do business with people who make entitled demands, do you Cindy?

Why is the BMF intake assigned a value of $250, because thats what you two think my cost is (apparently machining labor and months of R&D are worthless), but dyno time is somehow valued at full retail? How about I get dyno time at "his cost", so what, electricity, and a days rent?

And you'll be sending out free camshafts to whoever demands them from you, as long as they give you what they think is a good deal on dyno testing, right Cindy? How much does an F4 cost you Cindy? Dont include any time you spent developing it, just your material cost when you buy them in bulk. How about your $490 ported 2 piece intake? Will you be sending him one of those as well? The way I see it, thats only worth maybe $100 for a junkyard intake and maybe $100 for porting. Thats fair in my opinion, so I guess that makes it a good deal. And since I'm demanding it, that makes you want to work with me, right?

Word Bro; Relax.............

I don't think Cindy was trying to do anything but Help you, as many of us have through all of this. Your Defensive nature does Not go over well and will only hurt your arguments, Not help them.

You have a little bit of understanding but are starting to act like you really have it All. Not sure what changed as you seemed like someone that was passionate and trustworthy before. I think you have forgotten what got you here in the first place, and $'s and production are going to your head.

I hope you're not turning into just another Salesman..............

[acannell]

I don't know how you consider that an an entitled demand. Someone asked for any testing data because he was interested in buying one. You throw out a thread asking if anyone of the 30 or so people that bought one to post up results. NOT one posted up, then this guy said he would be willing to do the testing including expensive dyno time and BACK to BACK testing from a ported 2 piece, not just a single result from bolting on BMF which actually doesn't tell the whole story like a b2b test. I don't know how he is entitled..??
We are a small company, and started in our garage, yet we GAVE both Shadow and Warren a FREE f4 cam to test with with no strings attached to get a unbiased opinion and real world results even if it took years for that info to actually make its way to the forums.... so I'm just saying that even if you are a small company, the $250 or $500 or whatever the current pricing you invest is worth getting $2000 in testing on your product. BTW part of developing is testing. Good ideas developed don't always turn out to be good ideas once tested... I'm not trying to knock you or your product, I like some of the things you are doing but I don't understand your resistance to having a REAL test done.

You're putting words in my mouth. Its undeniable that I've gone way beyond just being open to BMF testing, I've promoted it on my own, suggesting I'm resistant to it is absurd, and shows you have some other agenda. I get to choose who I work with, and I don't like the way crusty shadow operates. He's also put words in my mouth and made it sound like I said things which I didn't. Asking for free stuff because your product is only worth XXX in materials and your dyno testing is worth XXX at retail, and doing it publicly, is a demand. Asking for free stuff at all is acting entitled. There are other people who've requested testing of the BMF, but they aren't trying to get a free one out of it, or starting out by pointing out silly things they think are problems with it. Doing this sort of thing publicly is obviously manipulative, how this escapes you is a mystery to me.

If you think the BMF design is not what it should be, why aren't you sharing your ideas in the R&D thread? So far crusty has suggested that drilling and tapping two holes, and saginaw pump fitment, are major drawbacks. If I (and probably anyone else) had to think of things that could be improved on the BMF, those things wouldn't be anywhere on the list, let alone "major". Theres another agenda at foot, and I don't think its a coincidence that a vendor like yourself is deciding to join in on the topic.

I'll ask again, why dont you send him a free $490 ported 2 piece to dyno test back to back? Just as many reasons to test it, and its similarly priced to the BMF. If you think his offer makes sense, and you'd work with him, why not? Imagine how many more you will sell when its shown how great it performs? And your material cost for it must be below $200, maybe even $150. For $2000 worth of dyno testing, thats a steal! Why are you so resistant?

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

as just a reader , I see it as an idea put fourth to be accepted or passed on

as many ideas go it's no crime to suggest something but by the same measure it's not worth anyone getting hurt feelings from either side

valid points come from all sides but there's nothing here worth getting into any disagrements over

dosen't hurt to put ideas out there but this is starting to go south without any real need

- no body's out anything

[acannell]

Word Bro; Relax.............

I don't think Cindy was trying to do anything but Help you, as many of us have through all of this. Your Defensive nature does Not go over well and will only hurt your arguments, Not help them.

You have a little bit of understanding but are starting to act like you really have it All. Not sure what changed as you seemed like someone that was passionate and trustworthy before. I think you have forgotten what got you here in the first place, and $'s and production are going to your head.

I hope you're not turning into just another Salesman..............

Tells someone to relax, then insults them.