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Thread: Computer controlled boost turbonator

  1. #41
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    Car has a small can garrett t2 turbo. Will hold set boost all day with a grainger. Tested with a vacuum pump and it holds vacuum no problem.

    I dont know anything about the turbo as that is what came on the vehicle but I believe it to be a stock rebuild.

    I never did try a stock smec but I put on MP 4344 flash last night or whatever that number combination is (its on the bootcamp side of this mac) and will try that today.
    Was idling like crap with that flash even changed for the 3 bar and the +20's.

    If I change it out for a large can, which looks almost impossible to get to, would the programming have to change?

    I seem to recall that a can change requires a program change.
    Yes - the WG being used requires a change to the DC table.
    The small 87 style WG canister is a 4.4Lb spring with small volume while the later large can is a 2.4Lb spring.
    This alters the pressure required to 'crack' the WG and the DC level required to modulate boost.

  2. #42
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    in MP scan is ambient temperature the reading from the air temp sensor? Mine sits at 47.8. The temp here today is 68.

    The baro read sensor in mpscan sits at 9.8. Does this with two sensors I have here after I switched out to the other one same reading.

  3. #43
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Reading on the 'other' site about people having the exact some issue at 5 psi and no more. Seems most of these people just give up and go mbc.

    Is there a way to test the board for the solenoid driver section?

    Looking at solid state relays. This one might fit the bill as discussed above.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/10A-DC-DC-SS...-/231513801470

  4. #44
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Or two other good candidates. First one is very quick with a 6ms operating time open and close as well as a 85 ohm resistance.

    http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/ary/1/g8v-rh.html which I believe are these relays:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omron-SPDT-1...3D311304243537

    Or the second one, much slower in comparison.

    http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/ary/1/g8he.html

  5. #45
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    in MP scan is ambient temperature the reading from the air temp sensor? Mine sits at 47.8. The temp here today is 68.

    The baro read sensor in mpscan sits at 9.8. Does this with two sensors I have here after I switched out to the other one same reading.
    Ambient air temp sensor is inside the computer (or power module) under the hood, also called a battery temp sensor.

    The baro reading is taken by the map sensor, the computer switches the baro solenoid when you turn the key on so it can read barometric pressure. This is how it adjusts for altitude also.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  6. #46
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    Ambient air temp sensor is inside the computer (or power module) under the hood, also called a battery temp sensor.

    The baro reading is taken by the map sensor, the computer switches the baro solenoid when you turn the key on so it can read barometric pressure. This is how it adjusts for altitude also.
    The baro is sampled via solenoid activation during decels.
    If anyone wishes to see when the event occurs, it can be witnessed by placing a boost gauge within the MAP sensor line and watching it 'blip' to atmosphere during closed throttle decels.

  7. #47
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    So the baro does not really affect wastegate directly?

  8. #48
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    So the baro does not really affect wastegate directly?
    It affects your boost target.
    If the allowable/acceptable baro limits are not adjusted for a change in MAP sensor (2bar, 2.5 bar, 3bar, etc...), then the default value is used.
    If the default is used and not set properly, then it can becomes a realized target boost problem.

  9. #49
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Is there a way to test the solenoid control circuit on the ecu in the smec?

  10. #50
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    Is there a way to test the solenoid control circuit on the ecu in the smec?
    The SMEC actually tests the circuit itself. At least for an open circuit condition. I'm not sure how much resistance is necessary to trigger an open circuit fault.
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  11. #51
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    I have been reading on solenoid drivers and there is apparently an oscillator in a driver circuit. I wonder if the smec has an oscillator that may see the most use in the actuation of the solenoid and thus be subject to the most wear and possible burn out with computers at this age.

    This is all just an engineers rumination with too much time on their hands fyi. The oil price be low yo!

  12. #52
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Going4speed, I don't have a schematic for the SMEC but there is no oscillator shown in the LM wastegate schematic. Could the author of what you read be referring to PWM(Pulse Width Modulation) from the micro? I use solenoids at work for controlling gas flow and we control via PWM duty cycle at 1kHz. You can think that every small pulse and its dwell pulls it up a bit off the seal. It is possible with certain PWM setting to get the solenoid partly engaged to allow some but not full flow.
    Just an idea but I could get my oscilloscope out to check the response on an LM. My SMECs are sitting in boxes, currently

  13. #53
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    So the computer just sends the pulse at a certain frequency no oscillator got it. Went out to put a volt meter across the solenoid terminals key on no voltage but continuity. Unplug the solenoid key on 12v across the terminals of the harness. Check each wire to the opposite battery terminal and get the same voltage. Plug the solenoid in key on and it clicks on but then clicks off almost simultaneously. With the solenoid plugged in there is no voltage across the terminals. I attribute this to the test the computer is doing for continuity. Check the codes after all this and have a 36 code wastegate solenoid. So the computer can see it and the voltage checks so the computer can drive the solenoid even for just the check.

  14. #54
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    So the computer just sends the pulse at a certain frequency no oscillator got it. Went out to put a volt meter across the solenoid terminals key on no voltage but continuity. Unplug the solenoid key on 12v across the terminals of the harness. Check each wire to the opposite battery terminal and get the same voltage. Plug the solenoid in key on and it clicks on but then clicks off almost simultaneously. With the solenoid plugged in there is no voltage across the terminals. I attribute this to the test the computer is doing for continuity. Check the codes after all this and have a 36 code wastegate solenoid. So the computer can see it and the voltage checks so the computer can drive the solenoid even for just the check.
    With the engine running, the supply voltage to the solenoid should be present.

  15. #55
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Would that depend on the cal though? I believe this is one of the differences between t2 and t1 boost. In my case the solenoid is always closed hense the 5 psi of boost. If I change to the other layout (I get them both confused) then I have no boost control

  16. #56
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    Would that depend on the cal though? I believe this is one of the differences between t2 and t1 boost.
    The supply voltage should be there regardless of TI or TII - the difference in the cal only affects whether the DC% is increased to raise the boost OR decreased to raise the boost.
    With a low side driver, which means the solenoid is only activated when the module supplies ground, the opposite side of the solenoid receives straight supply voltage.

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    In my case the solenoid is always closed hense the 5 psi of boost. If I change to the other layout (I get them both confused) then I have no boost control
    The 'normally open' vs 'normally closed' only pertains to how the solenoid plumbed pneumatically and is independent of the electrical connections.
    Electrically, the module circuitry and external wiring to the solenoid are common for T-I and T-II.
    This is why either module (T-I or T-II) can modulate the solenoid.

    ConfigurationT-I (1988 and up)T-II (1988 and up)
    Electrical Wiringcommoncommon
    Module Circuitrycommoncommon
    Internal solenoid mechanicalcommoncommon
    Internal solenoid electricalcommoncommon
    External solenoid mechanical2 - nipple*3 - nipple
    Solenoid/WG plumbingN.O.N.C.
    CalibrationIncreased DC% equals increased boostDecreased DC% equals increased boost
    * (or 3-nipple with upper capped)
    Last edited by 5DIGITS; 04-09-2015 at 06:35 PM.

  17. #57
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Good stuff!

    So what would cause the voltage to be at the plug when its plugged in and then not when it is plugged into the solenoid?

  18. #58
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    Good stuff!

    So what would cause the voltage to be at the plug when its plugged in and then not when it is plugged into the solenoid?
    It shouldn't make any difference. What are you using for a ground reference? The only difference is that the solenoid wouldn't have a ground signal at the plug until it's active (it is ground-switched by the ECU). So, if you're checking at the plug, that might be what you get. Move your ground probe to a common unswitched ground and re-check.
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  19. #59
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    okay so blue wire to positive side of meter and ground reference of battery negative terminal engine running gets battery voltage. Just like y'all said. The solenoid acts just like it would if there was no power and lets vacuum straight through. If I unplug it and then plug it back in it blips closed for a split second then goes back open with the plug seated all the way down. Still measure battery voltage across the two plug terminals using ground post of battery and blue wire at connector. What I did was hook a vacuum gauge across the solenoid to watch it with the engine running. Full vacuum across the gauge and as I stated above unplug then plug back in and you can hear the solenoid click but then reopen right away with the corresponding blip of the vacuum gauge.

  20. #60
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    I've isolated the turbo/WG/Solenoid plumbing from the rest of the vacuum diagram for quick reference... which config are you running?



    Note that aside from the WG solenoid plumbing, the source is different between the two applications.
    One being supplied from the intake and the other being supplied from the compressor housing.

    NOTE: the orifice has impact on the transient rate of boost rise but does not alter the operating DC% at the boost goal/target.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Turbo_Vacuum_Diag.png 
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Size:	35.3 KB 
ID:	54275  

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