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Thread: Computer controlled boost turbonator

  1. #101
    boostaholic
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    This car is the wifes daily and she does not like the stock program. Sounds like she's a boost button stage III fan.

  2. #102
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    This car is the wifes daily and she does not like the stock program. Sounds like she's a boost button stage III fan.
    Agree - always lean towards the performance side .

  3. #103
    boostaholic
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Well this ended up being a computer issue. Had a 88 TII smec lying around and figured I'd try that. Bang on exact computer controlled boost. Not a thing wrong with the car!

  4. #104
    turbo addict
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
    Well this ended up being a computer issue. Had a 88 TII smec lying around and figured I'd try that. Bang on exact computer controlled boost. Not a thing wrong with the car!
    Nice!

  5. #105
    Garrett booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Yes, I'm going to be "that guy" resurrecting an old thread..

    Recently, for the first time in over 20 years, I decided to try using factory style computer controlled boost again. I've tried a little of everything through time. I started with an aquarium valve bleed before moving onto grainger valves. Somewhere in there I played with a pressure switch controlling a solenoid. But in the end I kept with grainger valves because they just worked and I was happy with the results.

    I still plan to start a new thread for what I'm doing but I decided to first reply on this thread. This is one that I've looked back to before deciding to let the computer get back to doing its thing. I continue to review it to try and wrap my head around how it really all works. I'm wondering if there still are people out there that are interested in using the "factory" boost control? Are you successful? Were you discouraged and just went with an option that got a quicker result?

    I know up until about a week ago, both of my two running Turbo Mopars had single grainger valves for boost control. Way back, this was just my only good option. Now changes can *flash* in a few seconds. I still kept going with old faithful. I also have a HDI electronic controller that I haven't even opened yet. I'm hoping to make use of some of the benefits of what the engineers spent their efforts on. Hopefully it will lead to something Knowledge Center worthy for those that want to have it without getting discouraged.

  6. #106
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
    I also have a HDI electronic controller that I haven't even opened yet..
    I really. really like my HDI, btw
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

  7. #107
    Garrett booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I really. really like my HDI, btw
    I didn't hesitate buying one after reading positive reviews, then seeing how it works for Wayne. I had planned to have it installed for Drag Week last year, but I never got to it with the overall scramble.

    Here are a few reasons I really want to put some time into the factory control:
    - Part Throttle control at a lower value
    - Hi/Lo Boost off switch input
    - Correction for Knock
    - Boost by speed

  8. #108
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
    I didn't hesitate buying one after reading positive reviews, then seeing how it works for Wayne. I had planned to have it installed for Drag Week last year, but I never got to it with the overall scramble.

    Here are a few reasons I really want to put some time into the factory control:
    - Part Throttle control at a lower value
    - Hi/Lo Boost off switch input
    - Correction for Knock
    - Boost by speed
    I understand, thank you
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

  9. #109
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
    I didn't hesitate buying one after reading positive reviews, then seeing how it works for Wayne. I had planned to have it installed for Drag Week last year, but I never got to it with the overall scramble.

    Here are a few reasons I really want to put some time into the factory control:
    - Part Throttle control at a lower value
    - Hi/Lo Boost off switch input
    - Correction for Knock
    - Boost by speed
    Food for thought, not poopooing what you are trying to do.

    First Picture is Grainger Valve controlled
    Second picture is EBC(profec b spec 2)

    Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

  10. #110
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshelbys View Post
    Food for thought, not poopooing what you are trying to do.

    First Picture is Grainger Valve controlled
    Second picture is EBC(profec b spec 2)

    Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk
    15psi compare to 27psi is no fair.

  11. #111
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    15psi compare to 27psi is no fair.
    These were both at 23psi.

    Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

  12. #112
    turbo addict
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Then something was wrong. Sorry but a shut wastegate to increase the boost weather it's mechanical or electrical is still a shut wastegate.

  13. #113
    Garrett booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshelbys View Post
    Food for thought, not poopooing what you are trying to do.

    First Picture is Grainger Valve controlled
    Second picture is EBC(profec b spec 2)

    Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk
    Ha, not taken as poo poo at all. I know there are options out there and I have already thought whether or not any of this time can be better spent elsewhere. I haven't gotten my more important project out of the garage yet this year and playing with this "started" as only taking a little bit of line to plump up the long abandoned WG actuator on my Spirit. Recently I saw two people who were trying to use computer control and I thought I'd try it out. I thought Ken (5DIGITS) had pretty informative posts in this thread. I think some of the reasons people have been discouraged is that most are using Turbonator/MPTUNE and there isn't any simplified instruction (at least that I've found) that takes that good explanation of the routine and outlines the particular tables/constants in Turbonator. The "Turbonator Wiki" section on fine tuning computer control boost was never completed on the version that I've found.

    I don't really understand programming language, but I know scanning through the Turbonator code the T1 boost control routine still uses values that are listed under the VNT section. I think most trying to play with a cal using T1 Boost control would likely overlook/ignore the VNT section just like I did.

    At the moment I am using Turbonator SBEC 2.2MTX cals, running a pretty much stock 89TII setup in a Spirit.

    G-valves are simple and have good results. Multiple aftermarket electronic controllers have good results. I don't doubt that the factory computer is more than capable running a boost control solenoid effectively for a modified setup at higher boost level, with the benefit of the other engine data and protection.

  14. #114
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
    Ha, not taken as poo poo at all. I know there are options out there and I have already thought whether or not any of this time can be better spent elsewhere. I haven't gotten my more important project out of the garage yet this year and playing with this "started" as only taking a little bit of line to plump up the long abandoned WG actuator on my Spirit. Recently I saw two people who were trying to use computer control and I thought I'd try it out. I thought Ken (5DIGITS) had pretty informative posts in this thread. I think some of the reasons people have been discouraged is that most are using Turbonator/MPTUNE and there isn't any simplified instruction (at least that I've found) that takes that good explanation of the routine and outlines the particular tables/constants in Turbonator. The "Turbonator Wiki" section on fine tuning computer control boost was never completed on the version that I've found.

    I don't really understand programming language, but I know scanning through the Turbonator code the T1 boost control routine still uses values that are listed under the VNT section. I think most trying to play with a cal using T1 Boost control would likely overlook/ignore the VNT section just like I did.

    At the moment I am using Turbonator SBEC 2.2MTX cals, running a pretty much stock 89TII setup in a Spirit.

    G-valves are simple and have good results. Multiple aftermarket electronic controllers have good results. I don't doubt that the factory computer is more than capable running a boost control solenoid effectively for a modified setup at higher boost level, with the benefit of the other engine data and protection.
    I've talked to a few people who have had computer controlled boost working very well in the past. I believe some have used a larger solenoid at higher boost.

  15. #115
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    i bet using a mac solenoid that tons of other people use nowadays on turbo cars would work well as long as the coil resistance is the same or more as the stock solenoid. those transistors that are controlling the solenoid cant handle tons of current.

    the stock system had adaptive control so without disabling this, its hard to get the Boost level/vs duty cycle correct.

    with T2 style boost control you can disable the adaptives by setting NoWastegateDutyCycleCorrectionAboveThisRpm to something super low, like idle.

    with T1 style boost control you can disable the adaptives by setting NoWastegateDutyCycleCorrectionBelowThisRpm to something super high, like above redline.

    Then you set FullThrottleWastegateDutyCycle C8is100Percent FromMap to a flat line at a specific duty cycle and FullThrottleWastegateDutyCycleAdjustmentFromBoostT arget to zero you can go out and hammer it and see what boost you get. write down that duty cycle and boost value. change the duty cycle and try again and write down that boost value and what duty cycle you got.

    eventually you will have a list of duty cycle values and boost levels that result from said duty cycle.

    you can put those into FullThrottleWastegateDutyCycle C8is100Percent FromMap and the boost control should work much better.

    Note.... FullThrottleWastegateDutyCycleAdjustmentFromBoostT arget table isn't set correctly in the T2 style boost control. it should be the inverse.... the further away from the boost target, it should decrease duty cycle to get the turbo spooled up.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  16. #116
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Couldn't one just use a relay to trigger the different solenoid if the stock computer can't handle the boost? I would think some of the fancy solid state jobs out there these days would have no problem switching it quickly enough?

  17. #117
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Couldn't one just use a relay to trigger the different solenoid if the stock computer can't handle the boost? I would think some of the fancy solid state jobs out there these days would have no problem switching it quickly enough?
    it would have to be a solid state relay.... the frequency is too high for a relay.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  18. #118
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    I can't resist posting on boost threads!!

    I'm electronically challenged so I have to use manual boost control.

    With a heater fan switch clamped in my shifter, 6-12-18-24 psi instantly.

    I couldn't ask for a more reliable and fun system and it's essentially free.

    Back to you guys!

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

  19. #119
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    I can't resist posting in any thread!!
    Fixed that for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    I'm electronically challenged so I have to use manual boost control.

    With a heater fan switch clamped in my shifter, 6-12-18-24 psi instantly.

    I couldn't ask for a more reliable and fun system and it's essentially free.

    Back to you guys!

    Thanks
    Randy
    are you using the electrical fan switch to solenoids with a grainger attached to each solenoid?

    or are you using the heater vacuum distribution stuff that routes boost to the appropriate boost controller?

    sounds cool.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  20. #120
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Computer controlled boost turbonator

    I don't even use Graingers, just a bank of Dodge solenoids with brass bleeds.

    Graingers can be a little fussy, brass bleeds have been rock solid.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

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