Will not crank

[Who-is-JohnGalt?]

Here is the issue.

89 Lebaron 2.5 Auto.

Car allegedly had motor/trans rebuilt recently, not sure if true or not, but figured worth mentioning.

Car drove fine for months, with occasional stalling, turned off car, wait a minute, everything fine for a month or so.

Driving over a bridge, normal speed, car revs up but loses power, coasts to stop, turn the car off, and it won't turn back on at all.


It is a friends car, who claimed a couple mechanics told them A-engine seized. B- fuel pump.

I got the car to turn on. Starter wants to turn car over it seems but crank isn't turning at all. Everything else works.

I'm thinking Hall effect, but no longer have all my tools to dig into it and want to have a better idea of what I'm looking at here.

[2.216VTurbo]

Not sure I follow, is the starter turning the motor over or not? If so is the cam gear turning as well? If yes to both, does the tach move a tiny bit when you crank, like register 150 RPMS? It should just bump a little off its needle

[tryingbe]

Can the motor be turn over by hand at the CRANK bolt? Don't use the cam bolt for this.

[cordes]

Can the motor be turn over by hand at the CRANK bolt? Don't use the cam bolt for this.

This is the best way to figure out if there is some mechanical problem with the rotating assy or if the timing belt is broken/stripped.

[Who-is-JohnGalt?]

Thanks for the replies.

Belt is intact
Cam/crank don't move at all when trying to start the car. Starter seems to want to start the car.


The previous guys who looked at it said, fuel pump was bad, the other said bad motor. I don't think fuel pump makes car surge, lose power, stay running, and not turn back on when you shut it off for a minute and try to restart it.

And the stalling thing from before makes me think hep sensor, just because I have had a similar issue before in my Daytona stalling and acting weird. Replaced hep, issue went away.

But, not wanting to turn over at all?

The only code that registers is 35. Obvious not related. And someone at some point decided to rip intake manifold sensor out of intake.

[tryingbe]

Cam/crank don't move at all when trying to start the car.

Use a 15mm socket and a long ratchet or breaker bar and see if motor turns over.

This should be your first diagnostic procedure. Until you get at least this part done, there is no other information needed.

[Who-is-JohnGalt?]

Crank will move with breaker bar.

Not easy but it does move. Rotor is burnt to ----, coil is super old looking and rusty.

[tryingbe]

Crank moved is a very good news.

If the starter will not turn it, the starter/solenoid is done for. Get that changed first.

[dwh4784]

Broken flex plate? Noting that it stopped moving while still running and now won't restart leads me to look in that direction. The descriptions "starter seems to want to start the car" makes me believe that is is actually cranking, but not moving the engine, correct?

[85boostbox]

Or it stripped the teeth off of the belt

[Who-is-JohnGalt?]

Starter won't turn over no click, crank won't turn either. Belt is fine. One of metal relays was yanked off the inner fender, not sure which one it is.



Stupid question maybe, but how far much should the crank turn with a breaker bar? I got a solid half turn fairly easy, before it wouldn't move further except opposite direction.

[dwh4784]

OK, I guess I was confused by your prior statements. No click or crank doesn't seem like "starter seems to want to start the car" to me.

It should turn around and around without stopping using a breaker bar. It will get much harder at the top of a compression stroke and then loosen up a lot, but if it is physically stopping you have a major issue in there... You can also take the spark plugs out to relieve compression and see if it will spin.

[Who-is-JohnGalt?]

K, that's what I thought as well. It is rather tight quarters in there and difficult to fit a long ratchet to turn with and after getting a good half turn with no issue and then getting a lot harder, I was slightly worried.


Pump seems to work, I can hear it whir when key turns to on.

I replaced the crusty old coil, the cap had some buildup inside, the rotor was burnt to ----, so they were replaced with stock duralast gold for now, wires could be replaced but should be ok for now.

Test light shows power to fusible link, relays, but it is too short to test starter(need longer wire)

[Who-is-JohnGalt?]

Update.


Motor turns freely 360 degrees, crank was almost impossible to get a long ratchet on and turning more than half turn as it hit pullies and passenger side motor mount. But on cam, it turned quickly and easily. I'm curious why it was said don't use the cam? Much easier to access and it is a non interference motor so?

Starter relay replaced. No change. Starter does make noise when power is ran directly to it, but no clicking like it's engaging the crank to spin it. Obviously starter is bad, but it's curious either way.


Question, there are three different starters listed, a nippondenso, a rectangle Bosch, and a round Bosch, does it matter which one I use?
There's a 30 plus dollar difference in them, but their descriptions read the exact same except for brand and shape.

[cordes]

The Nippo is much smaller if I'm not mistaken.

Don't turn it with the cam because there is a possibility that you could shear the key. It probably won't happen, but it's still not a good idea.

[4 l-bodies]

You more than likely have the small Bosch starter in the vehicle. They are the most common. Ever thought about taking out your old starter first, then you will know what one you have? Make sure you have a heat shield in place (protecting starter) or you will be doing this all over again soon. If you take the passenger wheel off, the crank bolt is very easy to access through wheelwell. Removing plugs will make the motor turn over far easier too. I would not recommend you use the cam to turn over motor as it can very easily jump teeth on timing belt. Then you will have more probelms to deal with.
Good luck!
Todd

[Who-is-JohnGalt?]

Update:

Brand new Nippondenso starter, new starter relay, battery, and other parts.


Starter does not engage, almost like the gear has nothing to grab onto.


So, now I'm thinking ring gear aka new torque converter/flexplate....

Yay or nay and being a stockish lebaron what should I replace it with, if it is the converter?

If not, what else could it be?

[crusty shadow]

have you checked the condition of the battery? a weak battery will cause this symptom- starter motor will run but the solenoid wont fully extend the starter gear so you just hear an electric motor running when you hit the key.

what is the battery voltage during cranking?
what is the battery voltage at the starter battery terminal?
what is the voltage at the starter battery terminal under cranking?

you can NOT check any of this with a test light- use a DVOM only.

from what you describe originally happening it is extremely unlikely that the ring gear is damaged. you would have heard horrible grinding noise when you had started the engine and got it to start- you wont ever damage the ring gear under normal running conditions.

[Who-is-JohnGalt?]

I tried to jump it, thinking maybe battery was dead. Still nothing. The teeth on flex plate are ok, I turned the engine over again by hand and still nada. I'm going to go check the voltage now.

I never heard the car run, that's just what I was told by the owner when they relayed what happened. The terminals at the starter end were melted a bit but intact. Could that be the cause?


Dwh, had the same thought I am, broken flexplate not allowing it to engage and turn over.

[crusty shadow]

you need to get out your DVOM and actually check to see whats going on when you hit the key- otherwise you're pissing in the wind.