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Thread: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

  1. #1
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I think I'm getting a new project car - '84 GLH (carb) that of course will be converted to turbo.

    So, I already have a complete '87 2.2 T1 bottom end; with LW rods and a cast crank. The pistons are new 0.020" over Federal Moguls. New bearings, rings, etc. came with the engine in 'kit' form (it needs assembly). To keep it simple, I was thinking I would use this bottom end, one of my many spare 782 heads, Mitsu turbo (I seem to have many of those laying around), 1-pc intake, FFV injectors and a 2.5 BAR MAP; run it at 18psi with a water-2-air intercooler. Should be good for about 220hp on pump gas. And, very responsive. I won't be racing this car; it's strictly for street duty - SDAC meets and the like. This would be the first time I ever used anything non-common block.

    Sooo, are the LW rods up to it? I will never push it past 18psi with this setup.

    The only reason I ask is because they are already reconditioned (cleaned anyway) and mounted to the press-pin pistons. I do also have a set of '84 HD rods. But, they would need to be reconned themselves, and then mounted to the pistons. Another option is to take the caps off the LW rods and put them on the HD rods to make a press-pin T2 rod clone (found that one on the DDG). However, that's not the simple route, and 1 of the HD rods is iffy anyway. The small end is machined off-center by quite a bit.

    I also do have several sets of true T2 rods. But, they're reserved for race car spares...
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    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    The number I remember hearing for LW rods was 250hp but have heard of them breaking under that, and living above that.

    From personal experience, my T2 CSX "clone" has a complete 87 Shelby Lancer engine complete with T1 bottom end. Full weight (minus spare tire and A/C) P-body trapping at 104.5mph (dead hook at line so no tire slippage to err the calculation) I came up with ~235whp... I cross my fingers every pass

    Edit: on 100 octane no-lead race gas. stock garret 2.25" downpipe ~ 19psi in the 1/4 ... have seen spike to 27psi deep in 5th gear on highway (on CSX Stage II Cal so just throwing fuel at it, LOL)

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Lightweight rods are forged, so they're not completly wimpy.
    I've had a few engines with these rods and no issues yet.
    I think they are most prone to fail in constant high RPM high boost use.
    I would think these rods would be fine in the build you described.

  4. #4
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    i ran a very similar setup to the "cheap" route described (2.2, lw rods, swirl head, 1 pc), but stock intercooler, stock garret turbo with 3" swingvalve. i made 208 hp on the dyno @ 18psi with 5 gal of 91 oct and 2 gal of c16 (i was running mp stage 2 with a map clamp and thats why i ran the c16). daily drove that thing for over a year until the 525 let go, but i was just about to mount a front mount and turn up the boost...

    good luck, i think youll be fine, plus 200 hp was pretty fun in an omni! my friends thought it would have made 250-300hp because of how "fast" it was, we were all suprised at the "low" hp # though...

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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I autocrossed for years with them. 18 psi on race gas. GLHS. 260hp on the dyno.
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Do they actually fail from RPMs or load? Bend or cap failure?

    If they fail from excessive load, I would bet with a good tune they would last much longer against more clean horsepower than conventional wisdom from 15 years ago would tell you
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I'd run the rods out of the carbed motor in the GLH. The early rods were just as beefy as the TII rods(except the caps), they just weren't full floating... Like you said, you could run the LW caps on the early rods, and you've got a rod just as strong as the TII, just not bushed...

  8. #8
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    for 220 hp , "only" I'd use the light weight rods and the cast crank without question

    strong enough , has no extra load of boost and lighter than related heavy duty parts that simply are not needed ...so being na , it will have any advantage towards achieveing higher rpm more quickly

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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Do they actually fail from RPMs or load? Bend or cap failure?

    If they fail from excessive load, I would bet with a good tune they would last much longer against more clean horsepower than conventional wisdom from 15 years ago would tell you
    It's my understanding that they fail mostly from high rpm. My one friend who does circle track had a few fail...of course high, constant rpm with sharp throttle drops (HUGE tension loads on the rods). He went to the TII rods and never looked back.

    For what the OP is looking for, I think it probably would be OK.

  10. #10
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I have seen plenty fail at stock power levels, usally at the small end.

    No thanks, I throw them all out. The early turbo rods are a much better choice.


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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I have made dozens of 20psi passes on my light weight rods with no issues.
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    LWR for the loss! Just heard of one fail on a 20k mile 86 GLHS. Windowed the block! So much for #'s matching (lol)! If you have the motor apart, I would never choose LWR. These days you have inexpensive choices of Carrillo K1 or Brain Crower "H" beam rods that are stronger and 100g lighter than a stock TII rod. TU had some amazing deals on rods recently.
    Todd

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    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by mopar-tech View Post
    I have seen plenty fail at stock power levels, usally at the small end.

    No thanks, I throw them all out. The early turbo rods are a much better choice.

    I too have seem them fail at the small end on bone stock motors.

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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I have had two LW rod failures. The first was just after I bought my Shelby Lancer in '99 and it threw a rod out of the blue while driving it home. I was cruising down I-90 and it shot the rod out of the block. I chalk that up to poor maintenance before I bought the car. It did come out of a barn in State College after all.

    The second was another Shelby Lancer short block from #387 that I had transplanted into SL #127. It did not like the high RPM that I subjected it to while racing a VW Golf GTI. I was using 91 octane and +20 injectors and 18 psi out of the stock TII turbo at the time.


    All in all, I think the LW rods would be fine for up to 250 HP as long as your A/F is good and you have sufficient octane fuel. (zero detonation)

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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by mopar-tech View Post
    I have seen plenty fail at stock power levels, usally at the small end.

    No thanks, I throw them all out. The early turbo rods are a much better choice.
    True story on LW rods coming out of stock engines, a friend's low mile 87 GLHS had one come out just driving down the highway. I'm guessing there's a pretty wide production tolerance.

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    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Well, now I'm torn. I'd just run the HD rods if one of them wasn't clearly mis-machined from the factory. The small end is so off-center I think it would break before a LW rod. Maybe I need to sacrifice a set of my spare T2 rods...

    OK, follow-up questions: Is it possible to run 2.2 T1 pistons (made for press-pin rods) on a T2 rod? Just size the small end of the rod for the pins that fit the pistons? Or are new pins needed due to hardness? New pistons?
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I'm guessing there are no snap ring grooves in the piston so id say tge wouldn't work. If you're handy on a lathe I sure you coild machine some retainer buttons out of aluminum to hold the pin in.
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by shackwrrr View Post
    I'm guessing there are no snap ring grooves in the piston so id say tge wouldn't work. If you're handy on a lathe I sure you coild machine some retainer buttons out of aluminum to hold the pin in.
    Doh! You're right, no snap ring grooves.
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    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Actually, may be there are snap ring grooves. I looked again and there are grooves in the pin bores. They're narrow and square, not for the round snap rings I'm used to. I'll have to see if I can find some snap rings that fit.
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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by shackwrrr View Post
    I'm guessing there are no snap ring grooves in the piston so id say tge wouldn't work. If you're handy on a lathe I sure you coild machine some retainer buttons out of aluminum to hold the pin in.
    Funny you mention this as I was asking ASA about making some pin buttons awhile back but he thought not.
    While I don't doubt those who have broken LW rods, I've never seen any, but I've seen two T-II rods busted.
    The main point of catastrophic failure I've seen are wrist pin retaining C clips failing and the wrist pin gouging the block so the pin buttons seem like a natural to me. When wrist pin retaining clips of any type fail, the wrist pin becomes a battering ram against the cylinder as it can move back and forth.

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