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Thread: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

  1. #21
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    While I don't doubt those who have broken LW rods, I've never seen any, but I've seen two T-II rods busted.
    I would suspect because most of them have removed themselves from "the gene pool" by now.

    It was very common to see 87-88 turbo I motors with failed rods. The stuff that is still about are the lucky ones who have not cashed out yet.


    Working on clearing the decks.

  2. #22
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I'm sold. This is going to be a daily driver. I don't want to be building another motor for it any time soon. HD rods it is.

    Unfortunately, here's my suspect HD rod. Check out the small end offset. I don't want to use this one, and I only have 4 of these total, including this one.



    On the other hand, the car I'm planning to get apparently comes with some T1 parts and I think he mentioned HD rods. So, maybe I can use those. I'll have to check them out when I get the car later this month.

    Gary - on the DDG, you mention putting the LW rod caps on the HD rods to make a 'budget' T2 rod. Do you know if anyone has actually done that? If so, it might be a good way to salvage part of the LW rods. I think I have a set of ARP rod bolts somewhere, too.
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  3. #23
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    there's a reason I said go with the lw rods
    simply , 5-6 motors , all 85 motors with spun rod bearings before the end of the warm driveing months
    6 years in a row
    all but the first one a full re & re
    when I changed to lw rod 86 motors , still running at around a fair estimate of 200hp , no more spun rod bearings

    I still even have an 87 TII motor , short block that's never needed taken apart , and never needed use either as my cast crank lw motors have always been more than enough to make 200 ish hp

    always liked my 86 motors as a base for something mild ...

    edit
    but I should add there's a box of new BC rods downstairs waiting to go in my next motor
    Last edited by Dr. Johny Dodge; 02-08-2015 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #24
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    For sure, I would have the rods completely reconditioned. Including having the caps ground, and the big ends resized. I would never even try to simply install the LW caps. That's just asking for disaster.
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    Rob Lloyd
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  5. #25
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    There was a thread on swapping rod caps a while back, and while not impossible it's very unlikely swapped caps will be close enough to work. As an experiment, try swapping some caps around and you will see how close they match compared to a matched pair.
    Matched rods will have perfect parting lines that you can't even feel with your finger, and be centered on the rod, and any mismatch is very hard to deal with.

    If one had a very large number of spare caps, it probably would be possible to find a close enough match that normal resizing would work.

    eg: If the cap sits slightly offset on the rod, left or right, the sides of the rod and cap must be ground so the sides are even and the big end becomes narrower. Sometimes mismatched caps will sit kitty corner, requiring even more side grinding.

    Also and mainly, if the "hole" is not perfectly round, both parting surfaces on the rod and cap must be ground to make the hole smaller, then the hole has to be machined and honed to make it round again. If there is any misalignment, and there will be, this is not something many machinists want to touch or subject their equipment to and if the machining is successful you end up with a shorter connecting rod.

    While I certainly can't speak for Gary, I think he was just thinking out loud when he mentioned this many years ago, not suggesting it would be a typical thing to do.


    Anyone considering this could put a mismatched cap on a rod and ask their engine machinist to recondition it in order to get current facts in case there are recent developments.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
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    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
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  6. #26
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    there's a reason I said go with the lw rods
    simply , 5-6 motors , all 85 motors with spun rod bearings before the end of the warm driveing months
    6 years in a row
    all but the first one a full re & re
    when I changed to lw rod 86 motors , still running at around a fair estimate of 200hp , no more spun rod bearings

    I still even have an 87 TII motor , short block that's never needed taken apart , and never needed use either as my cast crank lw motors have always been more than enough to make 200 ish hp

    always liked my 86 motors as a base for something mild ...

    edit
    but I should add there's a box of new BC rods downstairs waiting to go in my next motor
    I would question the oil supply in stories like this.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  7. #27
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post


    Would not use.

  8. #28
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Gary - on the DDG, you mention putting the LW rod caps on the HD rods to make a 'budget' T2 rod. Do you know if anyone has actually done that? If so, it might be a good way to salvage part of the LW rods. I think I have a set of ARP rod bolts somewhere, too.
    I don't offhand, Turbo II rods always seemed avaliable so a non-issue.

    A good machinist good answer the question.


    Working on clearing the decks.

  9. #29
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    installing HD caps onto a LW rod seems like a waste of time considering a lot of the LW rod failures were due to the small end coming apart.

    has the block you were going to use already been bored and honed for those pistons?

    machining them for lock rings might cost more than a set of actual TII pistons.

  10. #30
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty shadow View Post
    installing HD caps onto a LW rod seems like a waste of time considering a lot of the LW rod failures were due to the small end coming apart.

    has the block you were going to use already been bored and honed for those pistons?

    machining them for lock rings might cost more than a set of actual TII pistons.
    Actually, I was considering doing just the opposite - putting the LW caps onto the HD rods. The LW caps looks just like the T2 caps; where the HD rod caps are noticeably less 'beefy'.

    Yes, the block is bored and honed for the pistons that came with it; 0.02" over Federal Mogul T1 style press-pin pistons. They have some grooves in the pin bores, but I'm not sure they're for lock rings. They're square bottom, and not very deep. Might just be for oil retention?

    I'm going to wait and see what all comes with the car. Sounds like it comes with at least some spare engine parts, and probably some more HD rods. Maybe I can put together a decent set...
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  11. #31
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Yes, the block is bored and honed for the pistons that came with it; 0.02" over Federal Mogul T1 style press-pin pistons. They have some grooves in the pin bores, but I'm not sure they're for lock rings. They're square bottom, and not very deep. Might just be for oil retention?
    They did come with lock rings years ago, never used them of course since the application was press pin. I may actually have a set or two of them floating about.


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  12. #32
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by mopar-tech View Post
    They did come with lock rings years ago, never used them of course since the application was press pin. I may actually have a set or two of them floating about.
    I actually found the lock rings if you need them.


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  13. #33
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by mopar-tech View Post
    I actually found the lock rings if you need them.
    Thanks, but the GLH I picked up came with a much nicer set of HD rods and ARP bolts (the original HD rods, apparently). I think I'm going to use those.

    If I can get a machine shop to press the new pistons off the LW rods, that is. Is it possible to get the press pins out without hurting the pistons?
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  14. #34
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Maybe I had a horse shoe up my rear but way back when, I was pushing 318 hp and 378 ft lbs through the stock 86 T1 block.
    I wasn't easy on it either, I miss shifted periodically but never had a rod failure. I actually still have those rods sitting on a shelf..
    Sure, I went through a lot of pistons, I used to use OEM TII pistons as I found they could take a little more abuse.

  15. #35
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Is it possible to get the press pins out without hurting the pistons?
    I have.


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  16. #36
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    I have had my local machine shop swap press-fit pin pistons to and from rods before. They should have a fixture to do it without damaging them.

  17. #37

    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    SOME good power mods here

  18. #38
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    wasn't the secret sauce to use the 2.4l turbo rods and forged pistons?

    http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...tons-2-4l.html

  19. #39
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Yes, you can use a srt rod as long as you use their matching bearings and order pistons with the correct pin size. The stock srt rods are smaller than a stock td pin.

  20. #40
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    Re: 2.2 LW rods - good for 220hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by turismolover22 View Post
    Yes, you can use a srt rod as long as you use their matching bearings and order pistons with the correct pin size. The stock srt rods are smaller than a stock td pin.
    Yeah, the Neon SRT rods should have a .866 pin and the old school 2.2/2.5 should be .901 pin. For floating pins at least.

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