87 dodge d150 carb to TBI swap

[jeeper]

Hey guys, it's been a while. I recently traded for an 87 dodge d150 with a 318. My first actual dodge. (Jeep was my first chrysler vehicle) At the moment it has the original Holley 2280 2 barrel and the factory lean burn system thats had some parts hacked off of it. It works well considering how frowned upon that system is and how mandatory people make it seem to do away with it in favor of older ignition systems. But, I am an EFI guy and that means it needs to go away for a whole different reason. I know the LA engines had TBI in the trucks from 88-91, before becoming magnums in 92. I have read the write up on ramchargercentral about doing this very swap. The writer claims that the 88-89 setup was "the bastard years". He says its better to go with the 90-91 setup. Is this true? I'm not sure which computers they used between those 4 model years and i know you guys have more knowledge on what i can and can't do with the computers in question than RCcentral guys. Thats why i ask here instead of there. I'm all for tuning one of these and also wondering if those TBI setups (with tuning) can handle any major mods like water/meth injection, boost, lumpy cams, etc.

[ajakeski]

The 1988 TBI V8 had the sensors seperate from the throttle body. In 1989 and later the sensors were mounted to the throttle body. Not much else changed on the TBI V8 engines up until they were replaced with the Magnum.

Converting a carb engine to TBI will require the TBI engine harness and computer. It will also require a speed distance sensor on the transmission and a signal from the brake switch. You will also need an 88-91 distributor, because that changed too.

I suggest you find a Chrysler V8 TBI service supplement book. This book explains the workings of TBI in detail.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-89-Chry...77c2e0&vxp=mtr


Most people convert Lean Burn to carb because it requires less parts, you only need to change the carb and install a Chrysler electronic ignition box and distributor.

[moparman76_69]

88-89 was SMEC, 90-94 was SBEC. If it was me I'd jump straight to a magnum setup since you'd get MPFI and more power. I recently asked Shel-game about the v8 stuff and he can read/write to the computer, but hasn't deciphered the programming yet. I think the most common mods are a 360 TB and headers.

[83scamp]

It may be more expensive, but since you obviously want to install power adders later, just bite the bullet and install an aftermarket TBI setup and 4 barrel intake now... The factory stuff wasn't built to support any horsepower, and will quickly become the bottleneck in the system. Plus, most of the new aftermarket stuff now self tunes in a matter of miles...

[ajakeski]

Boost Button has the cal from the 1989 Shelby Dakota Stage II computer. It along with a 5.9 TBI throttle body and a low restriction muffler are good for 20 horse and 30 pound feet of torque.

I'm running it on my 1989 Shelby Dakota. works fine.

As an added bonus it has the controller for a 4 speed automatic transmission (a500 lockup converter) and electric fans.

TBI runs on the same idea as the MPI turbo cars. air/fuel density. Sensors are the same and the computer reads them the same.

[ATaylorRacing]

Just swap in a Hellcat drivetrain and electronics...efi and a blower! I'd really do that to Matchbox...if I was rich!

[jeeper]

Hey everyone. Its been a while. I have been busy changing jobs and the week after i posted this thread, the original engine in the ol dodge spun #6 rod bearing and flattened a few lobes. It apparently had been running on less than 20lbs oil pressure for a few years. Long story short, got a really healthy 87 5th ave 318 swapped in place of the old engine. That's a roller 2bbl carb engine. I put new bearings and did all new seals and gaskets on the bottom end plus a double roller timing set and i advanced the cam 2 degrees. Fantastic oil pressure. idles around 20-25 @ my super low idle of choice. anything above that it jumps to 50-65. No smoke, no visible blow-by. Quiet, smooth, and ready to make some power. I have put long tube headers, h-pipe, and dual thrush welded mufflers. Runs well and has plenty of power. And now i have a 1990 d-150 that i got for little more than a song that i'm yanking pieces from before it goes to the scrap yard. TBI, cruise, A/C, doors with power locks and windows, and some other misc body parts. So i have my TBI setup now. I do realize that a Magnum swap would be pretty inexpensive and not very difficult, but this truck is my daily, and I feel confident that a TBI swap could be done with minimal down time, provided all the components work. Most of it i can test outside of a vehicle on the bench before installing. I decided I'm not going to do anything radical to the engine, so just doing the 360 TB and the Shelby tune sounds perfect for what my goals are now. I feel that my current exhaust setup will pair nicely with that modification. Just want something with more power, efficiency, and reliability than the 2280 garbage carb thats on it. Its my work truck, but i wouldn't mind it being a bit of a sleeper. Picking on the local rice in a long bed "Farm Truck" would be a blast.

EDIT: Would the Shelby Dakota tune go on an SBEC? That truck was from 89, making it a SMEC, IIRC. I can't remember if the two PCM's are pin compatible or not if i have to swap hardware.

[jeeper]

Update on the truck. I've kind of gone backwards with installing all my parts from the '90. I've installed the A/C since its been getting toasty in GA, and now i have my new doors on and power windows and locks working. Next i will be ordering the boost button cable and i'll be starting to test all my TBI parts before i put them on. If all is well, i should be in business. I grabbed the entire harness from the other truck so it would all be pretty much plug n play.

[jeeper]

I have the truck running on the TBI setup now. Starts easy, has good throttle response, and idles well. Seems to run rich. That's probably because its in open loop due to the fact that i don't have an O2 sensor on it. I haven't gotten the sensor in the mail yet, but i assume it will help remedy that. I ordered the OEM NTK sensor because its the "skinny" design sensor instead of the ubiquitous Bosch "fat" design that everyone locally exclusively carries. It has a list of CEL codes. So far it's just things i haven't hooked up yet like the 3 solenoids for EGR, air switching, and canister purge. I am expecting RWAL and transmission codes once i get to drive it since this truck doesn't have any input for those. And I have a fuel leak at the FPR. I have to order a TBI rebuild kit to get the "8" shaped gasket for it. I wish i could get it separately.

[Vigo]

Glad to hear it's up and running.

Ive been thinking about Dodge's tbi setup lately because of a slant six project i picked up. I feel like i SHOULD be able to run a slant six off the tbi setup from a 3.9L v6 as long as i could get the distributor situation figured out.

I just bought the TBI book off ebay. If this idea dead-ends i'd be happy to pass the book along.

[jeeper]

I just was talking to a friend today about doing a TBI 318 swap in his '72 duster. Then we got the brilliant idea of doing just what you said, TBI on the slant-6 that's in it since we love that motor. And if you do want to pass the book along, just let me know and I'll gladly cover the shipping. The more educational/reference material in my bookshelf, the better. Can you also PM me with the ISBN from the barcode and a picture of the book? Update on the truck before i forget, I mistakenly put the vacuum hose for the MAP sensor on a ported vacuum nipple instead of the manifold vacuum nipple right under it. That fixed the slobbering rich issue. I have an o2 sensor going on it tomorrow, and I'm sorting out the difference in the TV linkage so i can drive it without burning the clutches out of it. A lot of work but it seems to be worth it. It sounds a lot healthier, should improve all aspects of the engine by a fair margin over the stock Holley 2280 and lean burn system that was on it a week ago. There is a lot of hate for lean burn out there, but it has proven reliable for me, if nothing else.

[Vigo]

I think lean burn and other stuff from that era suffered from the fact that by the time professionals really got it down, it was obsolete, and anyone who wasn't a professional working in that time frame probably NEVER really got it down.

[jeeper]

That makes a lot of sense. Kind of like how a lot of cars that were super cheap back in the day were actually really good quality but since they were so cheap, everyone said they were disposable and never did maintenance to them. Then of course it falls apart and you know the car will get blamed for it.

[Vigo]

I got the book and read most of it. The system operates basically the same as all the other chrysler efi systems of the period other than a couple of notable exceptions like open-loop idle operation, air injection system, and idle pusher motor/idle switch.

So, it's very familiar to me from all my k-car experience. That familiarity lends a little enthusiasm for the idea of running the slant in my motorhome off it, but i'd have to purchase some help from Shelgame figuring out how to tune the thing for my application.

[jeeper]

open-loop idle you say? explains a couple things i noticed it doing before the o2 sensor was installed.

EDIT: the truck runs like it has a totally different engine in it. Its impressive for stock stuff actually. i'm excited to see what i can get from it.

[Vigo]

Yes, it operates in open-loop at idle because the air injection pumps air into the exhaust at idle which ruins the o2 readings. Once the idle kicker/idle switch sees the throttle move off idle, the air injection is supposed to shut off and the system goes into closed loop.

[jeeper]

Does anyone have any Cal files for the SBEC TBI 318?

[jeeper]

UPDATE: I ordered a DRB-II with chrysler cables and a Super Cartridge V8.0 on eBay. Scheduled to be here this week. I know i can get detailed live data with it and run tests on solenoids and stepper motors. Anyone know what else you can do with them? I've heard that they can be used to flash on any ECU's that may have came from Chrysler being flashable. Can it read and store data from the (E)EPROM? I've heard of some developmental cartridges that have been seen floating around on the interwebs as well.

[jeeper]

Got my DRB-II today. I love it. Found that i have a really lazy o2 sensor, ordered a new NTK one.

[Vigo]

There's tons of stuff you can do with it. I haven't owned or used one but there are several threads on this forum that talk about it.