Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

[ShelGame]

Not really, I think. It's just the basic Speed-Density fuel calculation with the specific names and modifiers that Chrysler uses.

What would your seminar look like? I believe I have a bunch more stuff already written, just need to paste it in...

[acannell]

Not really, I think. It's just the basic Speed-Density fuel calculation with the specific names and modifiers that Chrysler uses.

What would your seminar look like? I believe I have a bunch more stuff already written, just need to paste it in...

Try this. Find someone in this thread who said they have the hardware running as far as SCI comm and MPSCAN and MPTUNE running, but have no idea what to do next. See if what you have done in the wiki gets the there, or if they are still wondering what to do, especially if all they want to do are make common changes for common upgrades, or use special features of Turbonator cals.

In other words, lets "close the loop" and test the wiki based on what level of success people actually have with it.

[acannell]

Okay heres an UPDATED summary of the people who have responded so far:

acannell - MPSCAN level 3 and MPTUNE level 0.

ajakeski - "I have most of the required equipment and have spent some time playing with MP Tune/ Scan.
Some comprehensive instruction and guidance would be great. "

Force Fed Mopar - MPSCAN level 2 and MPTUNE level 2a, interested in MPSCANDROID

VaShelby - MPSCAN level 2 and MPTUNE level 0 (I think), interested in Tuning help.

Keito - "Interested." Has MACBOOK Pro.

mratliff86 - MPSCAN level 0 and MPTUNE level 0. Buying cable from boostbutton. Will be burning.

DoubleD - Already up and running. Source of help.

tryingbe - Already up and running. Source of help.

krut - Uses MACBOOK PRO with MPSCAN and MPTUNE. MPSCAN level 2 MPTUNE level 2a (Ostrich/Burn2). "I'd like to see documentation that emphasizes orders of operation for fine tuning a cal correctly. "

thedon809 - would like help in the spring with datalogging and tuning

bfarroo - MPSCAN level 2, MPTUNE level 2b. Has experiencing tuning and burning. May be source of help.

bgbmixer - Wants to datalog. "The more I read to try and figure this crap out the more confused I get and am reluctant to try and blow a good motor up. "


Some questions for you peeps:

Force Fed Mopar - Are you interested in tuning help or help getting flashing working? Or?

Keito - What level are you at with MPSCAN and MPTUNE? Do you have any hardware yet?

VaShelby - You do not have a flashable ECU, correct? And you were able to log with MPSCAN, IIRC. Also, I dont think you ever used MPTUNE for anything right?

going4speed - What MPSCAN and MPTUNE levels are you? What sort of help are you looking for?

Here are the "levels":

MPSCAN

level 0: have not connected MPSCAN successfully to the ECU
level 1: have gotten MPSCAN to read things from the ECU (faults, sensors, etc..)
level 2: have gotten MPSCAN to log data during a driving session (NOT including AFR)
level 3: stage 2 + logged AFR in logworks/external program (not MPSCAN)
level 4: stage 2 + logged AFR in MPSCAN by connecting wideband directly to ECU and using Turbonator cal to use wideband as O2 (very rare)

MPTUNE

level 0: have not done any cal modification in MPTUNE
level 1: have modified a cal in MPTUNE
level 2a: have burned a UV EPROM with a modified cal and installed it in the ECU and it worked (NOT FLASHING)
level 2b: have flashed a modified cal into a flashable ECU using MPTUNE and it worked

I think the mission statement here should be to get everybody who wants help and running to at least MPSCAN Level 3 and MPTUNE level 2a, using the SAME procedure and ONLY the procedure, on the wiki page Shel-game setup.

[acannell]

So we have about a dozen people who responded.

10 of them have explicitly said they want instruction tuning. Thats like taking a class. Not just being handed all the innards and being expected to make it work.

And several of them have made it clear they need some kind of organized guidance as to what exactly to do and how it all goes.

This is why I suggested an example scenario where a tune is adjusted for typical upgrades. A walkthrough in other words. That will help people understand how this whole process works. Some people have already posted walkthroughs of various types in this thread, but I think we need a walkthrough that specifically has MPSCAN with AFR datalogging in it, and MPTUNE. It can be either flashing or burning of chips.

And before we get to ANY of that, the class needs to be brought up to speed with functioning datalogging/MPSCAN/MPTUNE/flashing/burning hardware. We cant get anywhere if their setup doesn't work.

[thedon809]

I can hook stuff up no problems. I'm good with electrical hardware. I actually like doing wiring and putting computers together and stuff. I think I will need help with the actual adjustments in the cal but I think I am pretty knowledgeable about how an engine works.

[going4speed]

MPSCAN: Level 2
MPTUNE: Level 2a

Where I'm at is I just installed a wideband so I want to hook it up to the ecu and get that working right. I then want to scan and tweak from there. This is the wifes current daily with the crap oil prices so nothing will likely be happening on that car that is not regular 'keep it running' mode.

[crazychris]

Another great thread
I'll be watching this closely as I definitely want to learn to tune at some point.
Seems to be a dying art in my neck of the woods.

[cordes]

2nd this...

The same way a Chrysler DRB II /OTC is used as a diagnostic tool?

I agree wholeheartedly. That's the reason why I would like to look into data logging with my CSX. I think it would be especially valuable to me with the VNT stuff.

So we have about a dozen people who responded.

10 of them have explicitly said they want instruction tuning. Thats like taking a class. Not just being handed all the innards and being expected to make it work.

And several of them have made it clear they need some kind of organized guidance as to what exactly to do and how it all goes.

This is why I suggested an example scenario where a tune is adjusted for typical upgrades. A walkthrough in other words. That will help people understand how this whole process works. Some people have already posted walkthroughs of various types in this thread, but I think we need a walkthrough that specifically has MPSCAN with AFR datalogging in it, and MPTUNE. It can be either flashing or burning of chips.

And before we get to ANY of that, the class needs to be brought up to speed with functioning datalogging/MPSCAN/MPTUNE/flashing/burning hardware. We cant get anywhere if their setup doesn't work.

That's been done for the most part. Just about everyone on here needs to unbox the proper cal and then drag some brakes to tune the pumping table.

To me that is step one. From there you move on to the little things. People with really high VEs will need to take out some fuel when off the gas in my experience. Some people, especially those in lighter cars can look at the 89MP timing tables and duplicate those if they will be running 93 octane all the time with real boost. Timing in vac at part throttle can be adjusted ever so slightly to provide a big jump in mpgs while cruising.

I have one revision into the TLM 2.5 TII ATX cal that's in my NYer. Nothing is stock except the head with the exception of springs and keepers. This second cal will fire right up, idle, drive and run around town just fine. It's been too cold to get any real tuning done, but with some brake dragging I'll be all set.

[acannell]

I think we should have "classes", in the form of dedicated threads, that focus on one specific thing. Two that come to mind are:

"Communicating with the ECU"

and

"Logging AFR" EDIT!! Logging AFR requires a turbonator cal, which requires flashing or burning a chip, so that has to come first.

After those two, I would say:

"Flashing a cal / burning a chip"

and then

"Tweaking a cal for slightly different AFR and confirming the results."

From the people who have responded to this thread, I would say:

Keito
mratliff86
thedon809
bgbmixer

Would be candidates for the "Communicating with the ECU" thread/class.

And for the "Logging AFR" thread/class, that would be:

acannell
ajakeski
Force Fed Mopar
VaShelby
krut
bfarroo
going4speed

Now, not everyone would make a good student at this time, because I think some peoples cars are apart (like me), they dont have the equipment yet (i.e. people needing to buy SCI cables), or they dont have time right now or in the near future.

So, to actually start each "class" I think we need to collect say 4 or 5 people at least who are ready to go for that class.

For the "Communicating with the ECU" class, Id say the pre-requisites for being an official student are:

-Have SCI cable (boost button or other) in-hand
-Have working laptop or Android phone (if Android, then you will need a USB to go cable in-hand as well as the SCI cable)
-Have vehicle which you can hook it all up to and make attempts to communicate/datalog

For the "Logging AFR" class, the pre-requisites would be:

EDIT!! Logging AFR requires a turbonator cal, which requires flashing or burning a chip, so that has to come first:

-Have successfully datalogged in MPSCAN with your ECU
-Have a flashable ECU or chip burning setup (eraser, programmer, chip, socketed ECU, etc..)
-Have a vehicle you can attempt this on

So who can be an "official student" based on those requirements?

Not me..my car is apart. But I can help.

What about:


The following folks, please sound off with your "status" as far as the above requirements

ajakeski
Force Fed Mopar
VaShelby
krut
bfarroo
going4speed
Keito
mratliff86
thedon809
bgbmixer

[cordes]

This is a great idea ASA.

[acannell]

This is a great idea ASA.

Thanks! And I forgot to say. Besides actually getting the people in the classes up and running, what we learn in the teaching process will make for field-proven procedures that can go straight in the wiki. We just need students! The more the better. It will test things out better and also get more people thinking and talking about it.

Actually, I CAN be a student in the Flashing/Burning class. My car doesnt run, but I can still wire it all up and test it out in-car. It will just show "20.1" or whatever the wideband says when the engine isnt running lol.

So the student list is therefore:

Communicating with ECU:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Flashing / burning a chip (required in order to Log AFR):

1. acannell
2.
3.
4.
5.

We can have MORE than 5 students! But Id say we need at least 5 to "begin".

[krut]

I will second this being an awesome Idea. I don't think the body shop would like me breaking in to learn how to set up AFR logging though. (:
Do you have an idea when these classes would be?

[acannell]

correction:

Logging AFR with MPSCAN requires a Turbonator cal, which requires flashing or burning a chip. So technically, the flashing and burning a chip class should come before logging AFR.

So the pre-requisites, for the "Flashing a cal / burning a chip" class would be:

flashable ECU (boostbutton) in hand and functional

or

burning setup (eraser, chip, programmer, etc..)

Plus, you must have already had successful datalogging/communication with the ECU.

- - - Updated - - -

I will second this being an awesome Idea. I don't think the body shop would like me breaking in to learn how to set up AFR logging though. (:
Do you have an idea when these classes would be?

Whenever enough people sign up. Dont worry you wont miss out I dont think. The idea is that we get enough people together AT LEAST ONCE to teach as a group, so we can write really good procedures and get sh&& straightened out.

[thedon809]

I can't be a student as of yet. Hopefully somewhere right after taxes I can get it together.

[acannell]

I can't be a student as of yet. Hopefully somewhere right after taxes I can get it together.

no prob, Im pretty sure we can scrape together enough people, if your status changes let me know

possible students:

ajakeski
Force Fed Mopar
VaShelby
bfarroo
going4speed
Keito
mratliff86
bgbmixer

cant be students (at this time)

thedon809
krut

[wowzer]

for the record -

when mpscan starts it interrogates all the ports on the computer and identifies all COM ports available. it then determines which are ostrich and/or bluetooth and/or usb and or serial/rs232. it next removes the ostrich from the list and determines if the usb ports are regular usb or have an ftdi cable attached. the remaining valid ports are all available to mpscan at that point so if there is more than one valid com port you MUST select it in the com port menu option. otherwise it will default to the first (and only) com port. when you select the record button, mpscan will determine what type of port is at that com address and use the appropriate logging algorithms.

so, while not extremely complex, there is a bit of checking done up front before you even begin logging. if we wanted to make it real easy we could just FORCE everybody to use an ftdi usb cable. however, when i first wrote the program YEARS ago i was using a straight ttl to rs232 converter and other hardware to invert and convert the signals. and i know others were also so that is why i kept that option available and also provided for the use of non ftdi usb cables. also i'm probably the only one that has used the bluetooth option and in my testing was quite disappointed in the logging speed. but i kept it in there .... with the hope that someday a better bluetooth hardware option would be available with less latency. so my suggestion at this time for everybody would be to use the ftdi cable, whether from rob or buy and program your own. (and don't forget to set the latency in the driver options to 2 milliseconds vs the default of 16!)

as far as the difficulty of setting up a dashboard. i agree it's not the most straightforward as compared to other systems. however, we are dealing with multiple ecu types which have the information stored in differing locations so there does need to be some upfront work done. especially since not all ram variables are found in all ecu types. also, some are still using the stock cals vs the turbonator cals so that flexibility needs to be available. take a look at the mpscan videos. i know i suck at that but for now it should answer most of the questions.

**edit**
the latest version of mpscan is 2.0.2.4. make sure that is what you are using. i thing some time back i had busted the auto update feature which effectively may have locked some into an old version.

[thedon809]

Dont know if its related, but when i tried tethering my phones internet to my tablet via bluetooth it was insanely slow compared to just using the phone as a hotspot.

[ShelGame]

Instructions for flashing a cal to a SMEC or SBEC...

https://sites.google.com/site/calsby...edirects=0&d=1

Needs an update. It still shows MPT1 in screenshots, but you get the idea.

[acannell]

Instructions for flashing a cal to a SMEC or SBEC...

https://sites.google.com/site/calsby...edirects=0&d=1

Needs an update. It still shows MPT1 in screenshots, but you get the idea.

Looks reasonable, I'll give it a shot first chance I get and report back.

PEOPLE. Join the class so we can all do this at once instead of piecemeal spread out over 6 months. Theres gotta be more people who are ready to flash and log AFR. Arent there??


ajakeski
Force Fed Mopar
VaShelby
bfarroo
going4speed
Keito
mratliff86
bgbmixer

Please read the previous 5 or 6 posts and if you can join the "class" speak up!

[Force Fed Mopar]

Sorry, my '05 model Toshiba laptop finally decided it was done this week, won't turn on anymore. So sometime in the next couple weeks I will be acquiring a newer netbook from a friend, with Windows 7 on it. Posting from the wife's laptop right now.

I don't really need much instruction on burning chips or changing the cal, I've been pretty deep into that for a while. I may need some instruction on using a flash module in a SMEC/SBEC, but I doubt that's really much different.

What I do want instruction on is in the logging and cable setups, and in logging the wideband through the factory computer using MPScan, and in using it in place of the factory narrowband. I know Rob has done this and has posted how to before, but since I haven't logged in a while I'm rusty on the setup.