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Thread: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

  1. #1
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    Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Shel-game, master of the universe when it comes to the stock ECU, is developing a new set of instructions to clearly explain the following:

    1- Getting the hardware working so your laptop and the stock ECU can communicate for logging data and flashing the ECU
    2- Having a basic understanding of what the process of tuning is and how things are typically accomplished
    3- How to make use of the advanced features of his special Turbonator cals

    But we need people in the field to test out our instructions. Dont want to just throw some procedures our there and hope they make sense to everyone!

    So if you are ready to try and get tuning working on your laptop and car, or are planning on buying the hardware needed to get going in the immediate future, then we need to here from you! Please sound off in this thread to indicate you are ready, willing, and eager to follow instructions!

    The instructions will most likely be part of a wiki on the boost-button website. It will not be a Q&A in this thread, more like a Q in this thread and an A by improving the procedure on the wiki. That way we all end up with a refined, field-proven procedure!

  2. #2
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    ME!!!

    I already have MPSCAN logging, but Im not sure how to get things setup to flash the ECU.

    Then, I need to learn tuning from scratch. I dont know anymore than I will probably be changing fuel tables to match increased flow of things Ive added like BMF intake, ported head, etc..

  3. #3
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    I'm in. I have most of the required equipment and have spent some time playing with MP Tune/ Scan.
    Some comprehensive instruction and guidance would be great.

  4. #4
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajakeski View Post
    I'm in. I have most of the required equipment and have spent some time playing with MP Tune/ Scan.
    Some comprehensive instruction and guidance would be great.
    Excellent!

    Could you please list some things (and everyone else who responds)

    -laptop model
    -laptop OS
    -cable you are using from laptop to Chrysler ECU (assuming boostbutton SCI, but just in case you have something else)
    -MPSCAN and MPTUNE versions
    -ECU type (SBEC T1/SMEC/LM etc..)
    -ECU chip type (UV erasable EPROM with socket, flashable boostbutton ECU, etc..)

    And how far you have gotten:

    MPSCAN

    level 0: have not connected MPSCAN successfully to the ECU
    level 1: have gotten MPSCAN to read things from the ECU (faults, sensors, etc..)
    level 2: have gotten MPSCAN to log data during a driving session (NOT including AFR), and charted that data in Excel
    level 3: stage 2 + logged AFR in logworks/external program (not MPSCAN)
    level 4: stage 2 + logged AFR in MPSCAN by connecting wideband directly to ECU and using Turbonator cal to use wideband as O2 (very rare)

    MPTUNE

    level 0: have not done any cal modification in MPTUNE
    level 1: have modified a cal in MPTUNE
    level 2a: have burned a UV EPROM with a modified cal and installed it in the ECU and it worked (NOT FLASHING)
    level 2b: have flashed a modified cal into a flashable ECU using MPTUNE and it worked

    I am at MPSCAN level 3 and MPTUNE level 0.

    I would say to begin "tuning" by yourself and via the cal, you need to be at a minium at MPSCAN level 3 and MPTUNE level 2a/b.

    The rest of my setup:

    -laptop model Thinkpad T60p
    -laptop OS Windows XP
    -cable you are using from laptop to Chrysler ECU Custom FTDI RS422 modified
    -MPSCAN and MPTUNE versions MPSCAN 2.0.2.4 MPTUNE 2.0.4.1
    -ECU type (SBEC T1/SMEC/LM etc..) SBEC T1 (FWDP stage 5 ECU originally)
    -ECU chip type (UV erasable EPROM with socket, flashable boostbutton ECU, etc..) Boostbutton flashable ECU in socket
    Last edited by acannell; 01-14-2015 at 02:23 PM.

  5. #5
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    We should probably include MP ScanDroid in this wiki, too. Since it's slightly different setup-wise from MP scan...

    Added link to the wiki - http://www.boostbutton.com/turbonato...u.php?id=start
    Last edited by ShelGame; 01-23-2015 at 09:04 AM.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

  6. #6
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Already started several years back.

    -laptop model Lenonvo Thinkpad X130e + T410
    -laptop OS Windows 7
    -cable you are using USB A to B + Moates burn 1
    -MPTUNE 2.0.4.1
    -ECU type Socketed 87 LM
    -ECU chip type Moates Ostrich + SST27S512

  7. #7
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Already started several years back.

    -laptop model Lenonvo Thinkpad X130e + T410
    -laptop OS Windows 7
    -cable you are using USB A to B + Moates burn 1
    -MPTUNE 2.0.4.1
    -ECU type Socketed 87 LM
    -ECU chip type Ostrich + SST27S512
    are you able to log data along with AFR? and can you burn modified cals either with a chip swap or directly to a flashable ecu?

  8. #8
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    are you able to log data along with AFR? and can you burn modified cals either with a chip swap or directly to a flashable ecu?
    Negative on data logging.

    I can do both burning chip and flash ostrich.

  9. #9
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    I've been using MpTune since it came out lol. I burn a chip or two every week almost, just trying things out. MPScan I have used, but had issues connecting last time I tried and since my laptop is old and big and dies in about 30-40 mins, I haven't really made an effort to try again. Should be picking up a newer netbook soon to use.

    Also, am very interested in making MPScan Droid work, tablet dash appeals to me...

    Toshiba Satellite circa '05
    Windows XP
    USB Burn2 chip burner
    MPTune
    Socketed SMEC and LM
    Chip extender on the SMEC
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  10. #10
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Negative on data logging.

    I can do both burning chip and flash ostrich.
    How do you log data to tune?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    I've been using MpTune since it came out lol. I burn a chip or two every week almost, just trying things out. MPScan I have used, but had issues connecting last time I tried and since my laptop is old and big and dies in about 30-40 mins, I haven't really made an effort to try again. Should be picking up a newer netbook soon to use.

    Also, am very interested in making MPScan Droid work, tablet dash appeals to me...

    Toshiba Satellite circa '05
    Windows XP
    USB Burn2 chip burner
    MPTune
    Socketed SMEC and LM
    Chip extender on the SMEC
    Thank you!! This info is really helpful!

    So you would be operating at level 0 MPSCAN and level 2a MPTUNE?

    BTW I had success with MPSCANDROID. See my post here (this sort of thing will be going in the wiki at some point)

    http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f21/729378-beginners-experience-mpscan-mptune-2.html#post3402530

  11. #11
    boostaholic
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    I have been successful getting mine up and running and I can help anyone who needs assistance.

    Toshiba NB205 Netbook
    Windows XP
    BB SCI Cable
    MPTune and MPScan (up to date)
    Socketed SBEC II T3
    BB Flashable ECU Chip (I extended socket to accomidate chip, added 4 pin socket to board)
    MPScan: Level 3
    MPTune: Level 2b

  12. #12
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleD View Post
    I have been successful getting mine up and running and I can help anyone who needs assistance.

    Toshiba NB205 Netbook
    Windows XP
    BB SCI Cable
    MPTune and MPScan (up to date)
    Socketed SBEC II T3
    BB Flashable ECU Chip (I extended socket to accomidate chip, added 4 pin socket to board)
    MPScan: Level 3
    MPTune: Level 2b
    Fantastic!!

    Can you talk about what kind of tuning youve done and how you learned how to log and then tune based on that data?

  13. #13
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    MPScan 1.5? lol, I've logged with MPScan and used the data I saw to tune, but never put it into Excel or anything like that.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  14. #14
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    MPScan 1.5? lol, I've logged with MPScan and used the data I saw to tune, but never put it into Excel or anything like that.
    How did you learn how to modify the cal based on your logged data? What were your tuning goals?

  15. #15
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    How do you log data to tune?
    I don't log. I remember.

    Before you start tuning, you'll need to make sure you have prefect cam/ign timing, healthy engine, GOOD vacuum lines system, a/f gauge, boost gauge, make sure knock sensor work, OTC scanner/anything that detects knock, 2nd person is always good. Then you need the tuning hardware/software, socketed/flash ECU, MPtuner, laptop, cables, moates orstich, burners, chips, etc.

    Before you use MPtuner to tune, open a few calibration, compare them, get familiar with how it works.

    When you're ready to make a calibration file, first you set the injectors, set the map sensor, set when the fan comes on, set the check engine light when knocks, turn on a/c capabilities, etc, then compile, then burn bin files to the chip/flash the ECU and go for a short first drive. If it runs ok, great. If it doesn't adjust as needed. Every time I make an adjust to the tune, I save it, put it in a folder with notes on what I did. IE. V1 - change map/injectors, V2 - add fuel at WOT fuel above 5psi, V3 - added timing at WOT, V4 - removed timing due to knock, etc

    2nd drive. Set the boost to 8psi and set the pump efficiency, you want 11.5 a/f across the RPM while WOT. My CSX had a very healthy top end compare to stock.

    older mptuner, but you get the idea


    3rd drive. Then, raise boost slowly and adjust the part throttle fuel, WOT fuel, and no throttle fuel as needed. Tune it up to your desire boost point.

    A/F ratio
    Idle/Cruise/0-4psi shoot for 14.7
    6-7psi, 12-13
    7psi + 11.5




    Then, play with timing. These are the main two tables you want to play with.





    If knock knows up, I back down on timing, couple degree at a time.



    Here's a short write up I did changing my 91 cal to E85.

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ne-tune-how-to

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by tryingbe; 01-14-2015 at 04:46 PM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Hope this helps.

    You bet it does! Thats is officially the first write up on tuning Ive seen that could realistically get myself tuning ASAP.

    Can you talk about what the goals are as far as ignition timing, and how you confirm your results? Is it purely knock-based feedback for that? And/or perhaps EGT? AFR wouldnt change right?

  17. #17
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    Can you talk about what the goals are as far as ignition timing, and how you confirm your results? Is it purely knock-based feedback for that? And/or perhaps EGT? AFR wouldnt change right?
    Stock 2 bar calibration timing STOPS adjusting at 15psi, so if you plan to run more than 15psi, you need to make sure you retard the timing as boost is going higher. I use knock sensor base feedback, that is, add timing 'til it knocks, then remove a couple to keep it happy. There is also a point that retarding timing on the tables will NOT retard the actual timing, as there are other tables that determine what the lowest timing you can run, when you reach that point, you'll have to, lower your boost, get a more efficient intercooler, water/meth injection, race gas, e85, and/or etc.

    I'm sold on E85 for power. AJ's minivan ran from 14.6 at 90ish mph to 13.6 at 100ish mph at the same PSI level but with E85 and more timing added.


    I don't use EGT, never needed it or wanting one. Though excessive retarding timing can (from what I hear, too advance of timing can also) make the car sluggish (no power) and exhaust manifold/turbine housing HOT.

    Glowing because of excessive retard timing.
    Last edited by tryingbe; 01-14-2015 at 05:14 PM.

  18. #18
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    I would add a step in between scaling for injectors and running the car - setup the AFR lines in MP Tune and adjust the 3 main (really just the WOT and P/T) tables to match it. The stock cals are rich in boost, and the slope sends them even richer when you scale for 3-bar.

    I always set the WOT fuel to be 13.6 in vac, and 11.5 in boost, with a linear slope from -2 to +2 psi between. I then set P/T fuel to 14.9afr in vac and match the WOT table in boost.

    With the target AFR's set correctly in the cal, you can do some real tuning with the Pump Eff table.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

  19. #19
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    I would add a step in between scaling for injectors and running the car - setup the AFR lines in MP Tune and adjust the 3 main (really just the WOT and P/T) tables to match it. The stock cals are rich in boost, and the slope sends them even richer when you scale for 3-bar.

    I always set the WOT fuel to be 13.6 in vac, and 11.5 in boost, with a linear slope from -2 to +2 psi between. I then set P/T fuel to 14.9afr in vac and match the WOT table in boost.

    With the target AFR's set correctly in the cal, you can do some real tuning with the Pump Eff table.
    Are you saying here that the AFR in WOT can be close-loop maintained by the ECU if the wideband is hooked up to the ECU??

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Stock 2 bar calibration timing STOPS adjusting at 15psi, so if you plan to run more than 15psi, you need to make sure you retard the timing as boost is going higher. I use knock sensor base feedback, that is, add timing 'til it knocks, then remove a couple to keep it happy. There is also a point that retarding timing on the tables will NOT retard the actual timing, as there are other tables that determine what the lowest timing you can run, when you reach that point, you'll have to, lower your boost, get a more efficient intercooler, water/meth injection, race gas, e85, and/or etc.

    I'm sold on E85 for power. AJ's minivan ran from 14.6 at 90ish mph to 13.6 at 100ish mph at the same PSI level but with E85 and more timing added.


    I don't use EGT, never needed it or wanting one. Though excessive retarding timing can (from what I hear, too advance of timing can also) make the car sluggish (no power) and exhaust manifold/turbine housing HOT.

    Glowing because of excessive retard timing.
    Insane pic!!!

    In your words, could you tell us beginners what the purpose and effect of moving the timing around is?

  20. #20
    boostaholic
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    Re: Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

    Interested
    Am I to assume my MacBook Pro won't work?

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