Who here wants to get started tuning the stock ECU?

[acannell]

So, how are the 'classes' going to be held? Whatever info is created/shared, I'd like to add to the wiki...

Just a dedicated thread. I'd say the only real structure to it will be that it doesnt get created until there are confirmed 5 people ready to go with the right pre-requisites and that nothing else gets discussed besides getting those people to successfully reach the goal of the class. Other than that, anyone can join it at any time, as a student or teacher, and there is no specific time that anyone has to respond to it. Hopefully thats enough structure to keep it focused without letting it implode

[ShelGame]

Just a dedicated thread. I'd say the only real structure to it will be that it doesnt get created until there are confirmed 5 people ready to go with the right pre-requisites and that nothing else gets discussed besides getting those people to successfully reach the goal of the class. Other than that, anyone can join it at any time, as a student or teacher, and there is no specific time that anyone has to respond to it. Hopefully thats enough structure to keep it focused without letting it implode

OK, cool. Then we can copy the 'highlights' to the wiki for everyone to use later. I like it.

[acannell]

OK, cool. Then we can copy the 'highlights' to the wiki for everyone to use later. I like it.

Yep thats pretty much the whole idea...field test all procedure ideas and pick the cream of the crop for the actual wiki. With the side bonus that at least 5 more people are now operational. Hopefully only one class is needed and then the wiki can take over from then on

As long as we stick to making sure that whatever goes into the procedure actually worked with the people trying it, I think this might work.

Its important to make sure we have a core of 5 or so students who can see it through till the end though. If people disappear from the thread this wont work. So they definitely need to be ready, willing, and able, and so forth

[ShelGame]

I heavily updated the navigation on the wiki. And, added a page for adding a pin to the 60-way connector. Let e know if you have any comments or feedback. I'm going to go grab some pics now and get them up there...

[wowzer]

I heavily updated the navigation on the wiki. And, added a page for adding a pin to the 60-way connector. Let e know if you have any comments or feedback. I'm going to go grab some pics now and get them up there...

see my post at 127 regarding latency setting.

[ShelGame]

see my post at 127 regarding latency setting.

Yep. I pulled your comment and added it to the wiki page as extra info.

[going4speed]

Could we add the wiki link to the first post of this thread?

[ShelGame]

Could we add the wiki link to the first post of this thread?

I added it to post #5, if that helps...

[mratliff86]

Keito:

The requirements to join the Communicating with ECU class are a working laptop, boostbutton SCI cable, vehicle that can be connected to (i.e. not in pieces where even the ECU doesnt have power), and time to try stuff on a semi-daily schedule. Let me know as soon as you have all that and I'll put you on the class list. You can always join in later at any time if after we start, but if you are the 5th student we need we will start as soon as you are ready.

So for communicating with the ECU and logging, the only item needed is the SCI cable from Rob? I thought you had to have a flash module, if I can do it with just a socketed module, I am in for the logging as well.

[acannell]

So for communicating with the ECU and logging, the only item needed is the SCI cable from Rob? I thought you had to have a flash module, if I can do it with just a socketed module, I am in for the logging as well.

communicating with ecu = all you need is laptop, sci cable, etc.. you can do it with a bone stock ecu never been touched

logging afr = needs turbonator cal, which needs a way to burn a chip or flash a flashable chip. You need more that just a socket. You need a way to burn and erase chips. Do you have all that?

[mratliff86]

communicating with ecu = all you need is laptop, sci cable, etc.. you can do it with a bone stock ecu never been touched

logging afr = needs turbonator cal, which needs a way to burn a chip or flash a flashable chip. You need more that just a socket. You need a way to burn and erase chips. Do you have all that?

Awesome, count me in. I am ordering a chip burner this weekend, I think I have decided on the tl866 as it will handle 87c257 and the sf512 chips. I am also grabbing a UV eraser, and I will now grab a sci cable as well. I want to burn the basic TIII turbonator for now until I upgrade the fuel system.

[acannell]

Awesome, count me in. I am ordering a chip burner this weekend, I think I have decided on the tl866 as it will handle 87c257 and the sf512 chips. I am also grabbing a UV eraser, and I will now grab a sci cable as well. I want to burn the basic TIII turbonator for now until I upgrade the fuel system.

let me know as soon as you have everything in hand and I will add you to the list. you can join anytime even if you miss the start, but we arent going to start until everyone on the list is literally ready to go

[ShelGame]

Are the how-to's currently in the wiki good enough to get started? At least for setting up the cable and flashing? I know I need to update the pics.

After that, I'll work on finishing the base cxal setup.

[acannell]

Are the how-to's currently in the wiki good enough to get started? At least for setting up the cable and flashing? I know I need to update the pics.

After that, I'll work on finishing the base cxal setup.

has anyone tried them yet?

[tryingbe]

Awesome, count me in. I am ordering a chip burner this weekend, I think I have decided on the tl866 as it will handle 87c257 and the sf512 chips. I am also grabbing a UV eraser,

I would really advise against it. Buy the SST27F512 from moates.com and burn2, you'll be much happier. You can burn/erase in seconds and have fewer dead chips.

UV eraser... read up on how they work, you'll see why.

[acannell]

Are the how-to's currently in the wiki good enough to get started? At least for setting up the cable and flashing? I know I need to update the pics.

After that, I'll work on finishing the base cxal setup.

I made some changes to the wiki, check it out.

Also, I have some questions about the 12V protection circuit needed for the FTDI chip.

Does this only apply to SBEC's?

The original blurb said the "SBEC bootstraps the ECU over the RX line". Does this only happen with a flashable SBEC? How does the ECU know there is a flashable chip installed?

The 12V is the programming voltage for the chip right? Its not really a bootstrap function where startup code is being transferred is it?

Why doesnt shunting the RX line to a lower voltage level somehow interfere with whatever the 12V is doing?

[acannell]

for anyone who would like to see the latest procedure for getting started (Communicating with the ECU) see here:

http://www.boostbutton.com/turbonato...id=cable_setup

[ShelGame]

I made some changes to the wiki, check it out.

Looks good.

Also, I have some questions about the 12V protection circuit needed for the FTDI chip.

Does this only apply to SBEC's?

Yes. Only applies to the SBEC and SBECII (for the handful of users that have one).

The original blurb said the "SBEC bootstraps the ECU over the RX line". Does this only happen with a flashable SBEC? How does the ECU know there is a flashable chip installed?

Actually, the SBEC, SBECII, and Neon FCC all do this; as well as the factory flashable and non-flashable trans controllers. But, I think we should concentrate on the SBEC only for now.

The SBEC has no idea if there's a flash module in there or not. The multiplexed Rx/bootstrap circuit is a factory setup. I assume Chrysler had a development module at least similar to the flash module. I've seen pics of such a factory SBEC, but I've never seen one up close.

You can actually read the cal from a completely stock SBEC with this setup.

The 12V is the programming voltage for the chip right? Its not really a bootstrap function where startup code is being transferred is it?

No, the flash module is programmed with 5v. The 12v is to boot the ECU in the special bootstrap mode we are using to flash the module. Once we boot it, we transfer the code used to reflash the chip into RAM. It then transfers the new chip image to the flash module in 64-byte segments.

Why doesnt shunting the RX line to a lower voltage level somehow interfere with whatever the 12V is doing?

Because it's only shunted (if that's the right term, I'm not sure) on the FTDI end of the Rx line. The ECU side sees 12v, while the FDTI sees only 5v. It's a zener diode + resistor. It's a really simple circuit. I'll post a pic of the circuit later.

[acannell]

No, the flash module is programmed with 5v. The 12v is to boot the ECU in the special bootstrap mode we are using to flash the module. Once we boot it, we transfer the code used to reflash the chip into RAM. It then transfers the new chip image to the flash module in 64-byte segments.

Ahh okay. So in this case, the 12V comes from the outside world, i.e. whatever weird chrysler flashing tool there might have been or the switch or the pushbutton that gets added by us.

But then whats the situation where we arent providing the 12V ourselves, we're protecting the FTDI from 12V that is somehow being generated elsewhere? Or, is what we are doing in that case protecting the FTDI from the 12V _WE_ are generating with the switch/pushbutton?

That would make sense, and also explain how the ECU sees 12V while we shunt the FTDI side to ground, since we have added a resistor which divides the two.

But then why did the original blurb say the "SBEC boostraps the ECU" over the Rx line? Is that a typo? Should it be "we, with our switch/pushbutton, put the ECU into bootstrap mode by supplying 12V over the RX line"

[ShelGame]

Yes, the 12v comes from the outside world. The SBEC doesn't generate that itself. Correct, we are protecting the FTDI chip from the 12v we put on the Rx line to bootstrap the SBEC.

'For the SBEC, the bootstrap line is multiplexed with the Rx line' is more technically correct. But, the average person doesn't know what 'multiplexing' is. There is a circuit inside the SBEC that protects the Rx line on the processor from the 12v, while also sending 5v to the MODE pins. So, when the SBEC is turned on, the processor starts in the special bootstrap mode.