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Thread: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

  1. #101
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    I don't quite understand the questions here. MAF reads airflow, not boost, so it doesn't matter what your airflow is.

    Megasquirt determines fueling partially based on LOAD so whatever your MAP reading is gets inserted into fuel calculations. The one issue would be if you have multiply set to "off" because that prevents MS from adding fuel based on boost like it should so you end up having VE cells with 200% VE when thats obviously wack. I think load cells still top out at 255 so that is a bad path.

    Last, if you don't care about your IC piping popping off then I wouldn't obsess about MAF accuracy since you don't seem phased by losing hundreds of horsepower. I would ignore MAF and spend that extra worry on building some braces that prevent your pipes from seperating.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  2. #102
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaserDad View Post
    I am leaning toward running MS3 Pro, with a 36-1 wheel. The MAF sensor isn't a big deal, but what happens if I decide to run without the turbo connected? Wouldn't that mess up the tuning?

    I'm sure some are asking, why would you run w/o the turbo? Previous experience has shown that hoses sometimes pop off, at high boost, and I'm not going to waste a 30 min track session to reconnect them.
    If you blow off an intercooler hose, you're going to get a bad MAF signal. With MAP, your puter will still get the correct manifold pressure to run the engine. But as others stated, you can kill a turbocharger by running it completely ungoverned.
    Last edited by contraption22; 01-28-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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  3. #103
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaserDad View Post
    Previous experience has shown that hoses sometimes pop off, at high boost, and I'm not going to waste a 30 min track session to reconnect them.
    Why not make sure the hose and piping never have a chance to pop off? Weld a bead to the pipe, add brackets, etc.

  4. #104
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Last, if you don't care about your IC piping popping off then I wouldn't obsess about MAF accuracy since you don't seem phased by losing hundreds of horsepower. I would ignore MAF and spend that extra worry on building some braces that prevent your pipes from seperating.
    Not the only one saying it.
    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Why not make sure the hose and piping never have a chance to pop off? Weld a bead to the pipe, add brackets, etc.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  5. #105
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Yes, I plan to have the ends of the IC pipes rolled, but was just thinking about what if's.

  6. #106
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaserDad View Post
    Yes, I plan to have the ends of the IC pipes rolled, but was just thinking about what if's.
    You are making such a serious point of pipes blowing off that rolling pipes is not enough. You can 100% prevent pipes blowing off if you actually want to, rather than complicated engine management to avoid the 100% fix. Brace your pipes to each other. I just accept that one time I had a coupler blow off and maybe it could happen again. I was actually more worried about what was damaged and not about the coupler coming off. No MAF could have prevented my headlight from being detached.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  7. #107
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor mopar-tech's Avatar
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    You can 100% prevent pipes blowing off if you actually want to, rather than complicated engine management to avoid the 100% fix. .
    Hi! I'm an expert at keeping plumbing together at rediculous boost levels and 3" pipe.

    A welded bead at the ends of the plumbing and clamps from a diesel shop work great even at excess of 35 psi.

    Gary


    Working on clearing the decks.

  8. #108
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Paranoid? Do it like they do in a big truck. Bead rolled pipes with spring tension clamps to the charge cooler, and a vband on the turbo outlet and throttle body with seals like on an MBE.

  9. #109
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    well if you boost the maf sensor, and keep it close to the tbody, if you blow a hose it will still read whats going into the engine as long as you don't blow the maf off...

  10. #110
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniLuvr View Post
    well if you boost the maf sensor, and keep it close to the tbody, if you blow a hose it will still read whats going into the engine as long as you don't blow the maf off...
    Or just never blow a pipe off. I don't understand complicated backup plans for something you could have avoided but chose not to.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  11. #111
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    So now this thread has devolved into basing decisions about what type of load sensor is better to use in the event that an intercooler pipe pops off? really?

    some people in this thread sound a lot like an ex gf I had- she would spend all kinds of time and effort to come up with reasons why we couldn't do this or go there instead of finding ways to make the things we wanted to do actually happen.

    WAY overthinking things here- there has been more discussion about hypothetical problems that never happen in real life and fixes for said nonexistent problems than real info being posted in this thread. I guess the title "megasquirt successes needed" was complexly lost on some folks.

    intercooler piping popping off a concern? if it were me personally I would have just made a thread about that in the turbos and intercoolers section, but then im a dumbass I guess..

  12. #112
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Ondonti,
    What was the general learning curve for tuning your 3.0 after getting everything set up? How good is the self tuning that is advertised for MS?

  13. #113
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by krut View Post
    Ondonti,
    What was the general learning curve for tuning your 3.0 after getting everything set up? How good is the self tuning that is advertised for MS?
    Self tuning is only for A/F ratio. You have to come up with an ignition timing table. You set your A/F ratio for MAP & RPM in AFR TABLE 1 (for example you set 14.7 at 10"HG and 11.5 at 15 psi of boost) and select the self tune feature (which is an upgrade you must purchase, basic TunerStudio is free) and then drive. TS will adjust your A/F ratio in your Fuel VE Table 1 to what you specified in you AFR Table 1. I like the self tune feature because it's a good way to get you close without having to round up a friend to help (one drives while the other tunes).

  14. #114
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    So far, I haven't seen enough positive feedback to think that it's fairly easy to make MS3 work on a 2.5. I want to try using MS3, but have no clue how to set it up, or where to get the info.
    How do you set up the timing and boost values? Do you experiment and hope nothing gets damaged, or are there tables available?
    As for the IC pipes blowing off, I only mentioned it because it happened to me last year and I was concerned that it could happen again, regardless of what measures I take to prevent it, and I want to make sure that the tune can handle the change.

  15. #115
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    AJ, when you set up timing, is it reasonable to copy the parameters from a stock cal in the OEM computer? Or is it that not feasible. If that's the case, you have a good working baseline without having to start from scratch.

    So once you set up the timing, the rest sort of falls in place according to your experience? Are there other difficulties that you have run into?

    This is helpful information for myself. Setting up MS3 is on my "down the road" project list. Not so much because I really must have it, but I like the idea of having a challenge.

    LaserDad, I wouldn't worry about blowing a tube off. I've done it. Timing (I may be wrong on this) is also calculated in relation to your MAP readings. Also, if you blow a tube off it's not like you're going to continue driving like that for a long period of time. I've done this myself (Forgot to tighten a clamp.) - I pulled over and fixed it.

  16. #116
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaserDad View Post
    So far, I haven't seen enough positive feedback to think that it's fairly easy to make MS3 work on a 2.5. I want to try using MS3, but have no clue how to set it up, or where to get the info.
    try looking on the other board- lots of info about MS there and there are install guides


    Quote Originally Posted by LaserDad View Post
    How do you set up the timing and boost values?
    you need to go read the megamanual. it explains all of that in detail.



    Quote Originally Posted by LaserDad View Post
    Do you experiment and hope nothing gets damaged

    any modification to any car is essentially an "experiment" the risk of blowing an engine is the same no matter what ecu you run if you are making changes to the tune.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaserDad View Post
    are there tables available?
    yes, there are basic ignition tables on the other board, that's all you need

  17. #117
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaserDad View Post
    So far, I haven't seen enough positive feedback to think that it's fairly easy to make MS3 work on a 2.5. I want to try using MS3, but have no clue how to set it up, or where to get the info.
    How do you set up the timing and boost values? Do you experiment and hope nothing gets damaged, or are there tables available?
    As for the IC pipes blowing off, I only mentioned it because it happened to me last year and I was concerned that it could happen again, regardless of what measures I take to prevent it, and I want to make sure that the tune can handle the change.
    Honestly I think you're over your head. You think spending more money on an EMS system is going to save you from destroying your motor and you're wrong. "Garbage in, garbage out," it comes down to what YOU tell the EMS to do. If you tell it to fire the spark at the wrong time and the motor grenades, that's going to happen whether you spend $400 or $4000.

    The one common theme I found when looking into MS is EVERYONE said, "read the manual" and then read it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by krut View Post
    AJ, when you set up timing, is it reasonable to copy the parameters from a stock cal in the OEM computer? Or is it that not feasible. If that's the case, you have a good working baseline without having to start from scratch.
    When I was running my SRT-4 engine with the SMEC I could not use the stock SRT-4 timing tables, it ran like a dog. The stock tables ran/run WAY more advance than I could. I don't know if it was because I was using a slower processor or a distributor and single coil. Once I switched to MS I was able to use stock timing SRT-4 timing tables and it runs great.

    Quote Originally Posted by krut View Post
    So once you set up the timing, the rest sort of falls in place according to your experience? Are there other difficulties that you have run into?
    Once your initial setting are put in the rest does fall into place. I ran into a problem trying to get it started because on the DIY AutoTune website they had a cam sensor setting wrong. Once I clicked the right setting it started right up.

    I ran into three difficulties:
    1) I kept getting a "SYNC Fault." The TunerStudio manual is not very detailed so that kind of irks me. It took some research and it turns out that that code indicates there is "noise" between the cam and crank sensors. It didn't run bad just set the CEL. My fix was shielding the cam sensor signal wire from the cam sensor to the firewall (my MS box is located in the cabin). I got some home cable coax cable, removed the rubber off from the outside with a pair of seam rippers, removed the foil covering, and then removed the wire mesh and used that. It looks like the Chinese finger trap. That took care of that code.
    2) I still get a "AFRO Fault." This is when there is an error between your selected A/F ratio and actual A/F ratio. This annoys me because I don't see how you're going to have a prefect AFR all the time. It's always triggers the CEL during warm up and pops on now and then while driving.
    3) It will idle however it wants. In gear it's fine, but when I shift into neutral or park the idle raises to 1300-1500. I does it more than not and it's annoying. I know it's just a settings issue which comes back to the lack of clarity in the TunerStudio manual.

  18. #118
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Honestly I think you're over your head. You think spending more money on an EMS system is going to save you from destroying your motor and you're wrong. "Garbage in, garbage out," it comes down to what YOU tell the EMS to do. If you tell it to fire the spark at the wrong time and the motor grenades, that's going to happen whether you spend $400 or $4000.

    The one common theme I found when looking into MS is EVERYONE said, "read the manual" and then read it again.



    When I was running my SRT-4 engine with the SMEC I could not use the stock SRT-4 timing tables, it ran like a dog. The stock tables ran/run WAY more advance than I could. I don't know if it was because I was using a slower processor or a distributor and single coil. Once I switched to MS I was able to use stock timing SRT-4 timing tables and it runs great.



    Once your initial setting are put in the rest does fall into place. I ran into a problem trying to get it started because on the DIY AutoTune website they had a cam sensor setting wrong. Once I clicked the right setting it started right up.

    I ran into three difficulties:
    1) I kept getting a "SYNC Fault." The TunerStudio manual is not very detailed so that kind of irks me. It took some research and it turns out that that code indicates there is "noise" between the cam and crank sensors. It didn't run bad just set the CEL. My fix was shielding the cam sensor signal wire from the cam sensor to the firewall (my MS box is located in the cabin). I got some home cable coax cable, removed the rubber off from the outside with a pair of seam rippers, removed the foil covering, and then removed the wire mesh and used that. It looks like the Chinese finger trap. That took care of that code.
    2) I still get a "AFRO Fault." This is when there is an error between your selected A/F ratio and actual A/F ratio. This annoys me because I don't see how you're going to have a prefect AFR all the time. It's always triggers the CEL during warm up and pops on now and then while driving.
    3) It will idle however it wants. In gear it's fine, but when I shift into neutral or park the idle raises to 1300-1500. I does it more than not and it's annoying. I know it's just a settings issue which comes back to the lack of clarity in the TunerStudio manual.
    check over on neons.org there is a very informative thread on the IAC settings. I just copied the settings and changed the warm up idle speed curve to my liking and its worked perfectly on both of the cars I ran MS on. its the same IAC motor that our cars run, settings will be nearly identical. I run an auto in my MSIII shadow, if you want I can send you my .msq if you want to try some of my IAC settings. works perfectly- have zero issues with idle bouncing around or increasing after taking the car out of gear.


    the noise issue you had was the main reason DIYautotune includes a shielded cable for the crank sensor with their wire bundles and wire harnesses. I have had zero issues with noise on the cam and crank signals, and I run that cable from the sensor all the way to the MS.

    I do believe you can change the threshold that turns on the cel for AFRO fault.


    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Honestly I think you're over your head. You think spending more money on an EMS system is going to save you from destroying your motor and you're wrong. "Garbage in, garbage out," it comes down to what YOU tell the EMS to do. If you tell it to fire the spark at the wrong time and the motor grenades, that's going to happen whether you spend $400 or $4000.

    The one common theme I found when looking into MS is EVERYONE said, "read the manual" and then read it again.
    I cannot even begin to express how much I agree with this. if you cant figure out how to wire up and install a stand alone ECU you really do not have any business trying to tune a car. installation and initial start up is the easy part- tuning is not something that anyone can just learn overnight or by reading a couple webpages. it takes a LOT of intricate knowledge of what you are dealing with and understanding how changes you make are going to affect the car, plus a BUNCH of experience. there is a reason there are schools and training programs out there that specifically teach how to tune. There is a reason guys like ShelGame A.J. myself and others like us have come so far- years of real world experience. 8 years ago if you asked me to build and install an aftermarket ECU and get the car to run reasonably well I wouldn't have had a clue. I started by reading- a LOT. I read the megamanual , I would read it any time I wasn't doing anything else- I would frequently bring my laptop in the bathroom with me so I could read and learn while I was taking a dump ( I still do that) if you don't want to do the research and learn on your own you are setting yourself up for a spectacular fail

  19. #119
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    My problem isn't doing wiring. That's the easy part. It's just the time that it is going to take to learn how to program, and get the tune correct. That being said, it now looks like I will have next fall to work on it, since my painter probably won't have the car back until April/May. I was hoping to play with it by June, but there's no way it will be done in time. At least I have my Laser to use for this summer's track days.
    Since time will no longer be an issue, I guess that I will go with MS3. I like the tips that are starting to be posted. Those are the kind of things needed to keep from pulling my hair out. Any real life experiences are what we need to get posted.

  20. #120
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    Re: MegaSquirt Successes Needed

    I have been following this thread and trying to decide which route I will go when I put the srt motor in my charger. I'm sure I could wire up a ms and figure out to start tuning but am not to the level where if I spent a few grand on a motor I'd be comfortable tuning it in. I have been thinking about using a name brand stand alone ecu that I can take and have someone else tune In. Am I looking at this situation wrong?

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