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Thread: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

  1. #21
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Very cool idea.
    I like the idea of an OTC scanner clone that can be permently installed and read inside the car.

  2. #22
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I've already made a device that will output temp and boost pressure to an LCD. It would be nice if I could get it to display the computer stuff too.
    You're 99% there.

    To talk to the 1990 SBEC T1 heres what I did:

    +12V to pins 3 and 9
    GND to pin 11
    serial data INTO ECU to pin 45
    serial data FROM ECU to pin 25

    Handshake at startup is:

    7812 baud: send 0x12
    7812 baud: receive echo of 0x12
    switch to 62500 baud
    send 0x12
    receive echo of 0

    If the handshake doesn't work, the ECU will not communicate and you will need to reset its power to try again.

    I do not like the handshake above, I think theres something wrong with it. I'm going to monitor the OTC2000 and copy whatever its handshake is instead.

    Then, to grab say TPS volts, send a 0x86, and the byte you get back is it.

    The ECU serial lines are idle-low logic. So you will need to do whatever you need to do to invert as required.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by knownenemy View Post
    I like the idea of having a gauge that would read any parameter I choose.

    How about wiring to several different readable parameters,
    and a simple 5,6 or 8! position switch that can be switched from one to another to the same gauge?
    (ie: Switch position #1 is knock, Switch position #2 is 02 sensor voltage, etc, etc, etc...)

    wuddya tink?

    I like it. I think a rotary switch would be the fastest way to scroll through multiple settings. Pushbuttons will work too but not as fast. However I think some pushbuttons will still be needed to switch modes or select things.

  3. #23
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    This.

    Asa, there's another DRBII command that will output 1 of 16 different PIDs. The scantools expect certain PIDs in each slot, but there's no reason they can't be changed for this device. An up/down toggle could then be used to 'scroll' the PIDs.

    The usual PIDs are rpm, speed, o2 volts, knock on each cyl, injector PW, etc. The main stuff.

    MP Scan uses the development command that gives it access to all 256 RAM locations. Not sure what command you used.

    Myself, I still want a stand alone automatic data logger that will log selected channels to a .csv file on a microSD card for later analysis in Excel.
    I just used 0x12 @ 7812 then 0x12 @ 62500, which I always receive a "0" response to..and then I sent a ram location like 0x86 for TPS.

    I'm going to monitor the OTC2000 traffic and do whatever it does though instead. I dont think it does that.

    I also want a datalogger that spits out CSV data like that.

    Basically something that is always logging. No more cable mess. No more dangerous looking over at or fussing with a laptop. Just always on, always logging. Convenient transfer to computer for analysis.

    I could make this have removable storage. I'm just trying to figure out what the most people want. One way or another my particular car is going to have a removable storage data logging system though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    Rob,I'm looking at an arduino to do this for me also. Actually was going to start on it in a few months. Mpscan uses two methods to get data as rob said, the high speed 0x12 method for scanning and the diagnostics method that the OTC type scanner uses to get the selected pids as well as run some of the actuator tests. Really interested in what you're doing also asa. Be great to come up with a cheap way to bypass the ftdi cable setup and still get the data out of the ecu reliably and easily. Curious how you're dealing with the inverted TTL signals and what baud rate you're using.
    info above is how Im currently talking to it

    in this case the processor I'm using did not have an internal way to set received serial logic to idle-low, so I added an optocoupler to do the inversion.

  4. #24
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    A true knock sensor gauge would be awesome. I have a otc2000, but its bulky.

  5. #25
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFromHell View Post
    A true knock sensor gauge would be awesome. I have a otc2000, but its bulky.
    I know I would really like one too.

    Imagine having a very easy to read gauge that shows 5 things:

    Knock sensor counts
    Knock retard for cyl#1
    Knock retard for cyl#2
    Knock retard for cyl#3
    Knock retard for cyl#4

    This would let you simultaneously monitor knock and also how your tune is responding to the knock.

    You would be able to observe if there is knock retard when you dont think there should be, or vice versa.

    And does all 5 in a bargraph format so you dont even have to read numbers.

    There are SO many cheap ways to make a knock-sensor gauge.

    Do we really want to see the knock retard in degrees or would it be more useful to see it as a bargraph?

    Let your imagination run wild here.

  6. #26
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    4-5 parameters at once as a 52mm gauge size is very compact. What about SMEC compatibility? Or even something for OBD2?
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  7. #27
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanmanČ View Post
    4-5 parameters at once as a 52mm gauge size is very compact. What about SMEC compatibility? Or even something for OBD2?
    Id shoot for compatibility with all our logic modules for sure. But not OBD2..there are already zillions of OBD2 products out there and non of the 80's and early 90's TM's use it do they?

  8. #28
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Asa - the 'other' data logging command is 0x14 (instead of 0x12). After the command is echoed, you send the 'slot' of the PID you want. The PID list (with slot number) is :

    Code:
    Ambient Air Temp			#01
    O2 Sensor Volts				#02
    END				        #03
    END				        #04
    Coolant Temp				#05
    Raw Coolant Temp Volts			#06
    TPS Volts				#07
    Min TPS Volts				#08
    Knock Volts				#09
    Battery Volts				#0A
    MAP Value				#0B
    Desired AIS Position			#0C
    END				        #0D
    Value from Adaptive mem			#0E
    Barometric Pressure			#0F
    Min Engine RPM				#10
    Engine RPM				#11
    END				        #12
    Key-On Cycles Error 1			#13
    END				        #14
    Spark Advance				#15
    Cyl 1 Retard				#16
    Cyl 2 Retard				#17
    Cyl 3 Retard				#18
    Cyl 4 Retard				#19
    Target Boost				#1A
    You can theoretically swap any PID into any slot, but that would 'break' generic scantool function since the OTC and DRB expect certain PID's in certain slots.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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  9. #29
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Asa - the 'other' data logging command is 0x14 (instead of 0x12). After the command is echoed, you send the 'slot' of the PID you want. The PID list (with slot number) is :

    Code:
    Ambient Air Temp            #01
    O2 Sensor Volts                #02
    END                        #03
    END                        #04
    Coolant Temp                #05
    Raw Coolant Temp Volts            #06
    TPS Volts                #07
    Min TPS Volts                #08
    Knock Volts                #09
    Battery Volts                #0A
    MAP Value                #0B
    Desired AIS Position            #0C
    END                        #0D
    Value from Adaptive mem            #0E
    Barometric Pressure            #0F
    Min Engine RPM                #10
    Engine RPM                #11
    END                        #12
    Key-On Cycles Error 1            #13
    END                        #14
    Spark Advance                #15
    Cyl 1 Retard                #16
    Cyl 2 Retard                #17
    Cyl 3 Retard                #18
    Cyl 4 Retard                #19
    Target Boost                #1A
    You can theoretically swap any PID into any slot, but that would 'break' generic scantool function since the OTC and DRB expect certain PID's in certain slots.
    Thanks Rob. Is there a reason not to use the 0x12 and access any ram location arbitrarily?

  10. #30
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    Thanks Rob. Is there a reason not to use the 0x12 and access any ram location arbitrarily?
    Not at all. The code 0x14 is just another way to do it. I think Chrysler reserved the 0x12 for internal development and DRBII use. I don't believe the OTC scantools can use it.

    In the SBEC and later ECU's there's a 3rd way that simply streams out a series of bytes. The PID's, however, have to be burned into the cal. The code could easily be changed to load the PID list into the 6811's EEPROM, for example. Then you could load or alter the PID's on the fly from an external source. That bit of logger code could also easily be added to the SMEC for use in this type of data logger.

    The streaming option should theoretically be -at least- double the bandwidth, since it doesn't have send/receive byte-by-byte. You simply send 2 or 3 command bytes and data starts flowing as fast as it can.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
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    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
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  11. #31
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    I'm interested in your device Asa, you can put me on a list for one.

  12. #32
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    I was just cleaning up my garage tonight and found 2 old 2 button travelers.

    How about replacing the guts of one of those? Stealth-like...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

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  13. #33
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    I just got a 2 button traveler, I like this idea, now looking for lcd's to replace both the lower traveler and the overhead one in my car, I want blue lcd's, but stealthy data logging would be even better!

  14. #34
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    Id shoot for compatibility with all our logic modules for sure. But not OBD2..there are already zillions of OBD2 products out there and non of the 80's and early 90's TM's use it do they?
    OBD2 gauges are very expensive, seems people think they are made of gold, they are $200+.

    Traveller idea is a great idea.
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  15. #35
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Ok guys, I did a few hours of brainstorming tonight and here are my ideas. I am not an electronics software or hardware guy so this is more of a want list. I have worked with electronic guys on the job for development of products before and a dream list always seems to get things going.

    I am with a few of you here and I want a stand alone gauge that has on board data logging that is simple and easy to use. I think there are enough guys here that will a little collaboration we can make a sweet product.

    I really like the idea of making a 2 button traveler into a stealth gauge, but I don't believe everyone will have the real estate available, so I think this product needs to have two versions:
    One should be a self contained unit developed to fit into a standard 52mm gauge. The parts you have for the thermocouple gauge are almost spot on and ready to go, just with the aforementioned changes.
    Second should be a modular product for the custom guys out there. The chosen display should be sized to fit into a standard traveler viewing window, but could be mounted in or to anything. I really want a display with blue text to go with my completely swapped backlighting to blue LED's, no green or yellow for me!
    Features of both:
    Connection to PC- there should be a way to connect the board to a PC and develop a simple program to talk to the gauge to decide what it displays and/or records.
    Removable Memory- I think to keep this thing stupid simple, a removable SD card slot should be used, you could set up what you want recorded and at what sampling rate via programming with a PC, then all the end user does is stick an SD card into the gauge or wherever the modular one is stuck. The card initializes on start up and starts logging data. right away. The card chooses a file name every time its starts up the car based on the timestamp or w/e is programmed via the PC. The data would be complied on the card as .csv files. You could then pop the card out, then pop it into your PC and then read the info using whatever data analysis software you like (Excel as example)
    Connection to ECU-I would appreciate some way of having both Rods's ftdi cable hooked up and also having this device hooked up, I would rather not have to pop the hood to switch the cords.
    Ability to connect extra sensor to be logged- I run an innovate MTX-L, the gauge has an extra wire that can be logged. I would like to be able to connect this sensor to the gauge and have it logged for later analysis too. Here is the output of my sensor, Analog output one (yellow) is 0V = 7.35 AFR and 5V = 22.39 AFR. Simple enough of an output.
    I noticed you current gauge has two buttons and the traveler has two buttons, if we could find a way to connect the traveler buttons to your board (they have a 3 pin connector) that would make it even sweeter.
    I am envisioning cutting a small slot about the reset button on the front of the traveler and adding the sd card there, would be very stealth and super slick.
    I don't understand how the data collecting works, but I would say showing 2 maybe three lines of data on the display should be enough. Giving the user the choice of what is displayed via a PC interface program seems like the ticket to me, but this is not my area of expertise. Just my .02 on the idea.
    I am more than willing to help collaborate and test this product out, I run a 92 Daytona IROC R/T TIII with the SBEC2, another willing guinea pig for the project. Already running a flashable ECU chip with Shelgame's cable and MPSuite on board. Loving all the tuning possibilities all ready!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here are some pics of the 2 button traveler.





  16. #36
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    I hate to do this because its clear some people want it to fit a traveler, but I dont think I'm going to be able to accommodate that. Several body styles do not have the traveler. Or at least, the G body I have doesnt lol. Second, I have a bad feeling about spending time making it fit in the traveler spot. I think that wont end up being time well spent, versus just a circular gauge mount or an ULTRA cheap potted chewing gum size thing with wires sticking out. I already have a process to very cheaply injection mold the housing for the DTGAUGE so no design work is required except to delete the "dual thermocouple" text. It has internal mounts for PCB's, a strain relief design, and a mounting bar design, plus provisions for the lexan window and constrast enhancing film (an absolute must with 7 seg).

    All your other ideas are great and I'm thinking along the same lines.

    It seems the major question to answer is: do we absolutely have to have removable storage? Because in that case I have to get a FAT filesystem driver going in the microcontroller, which is not too much trouble, but the issue is making it reliable and robust. Thats a time killer.

    So instead, I'm thinking have a bluetooth interface. Tonight I got my DTGAUGE electronics talking to my android phone over bluetooth using an HC06 module. The modules are around $6.

    The way it works is, you pair once with the module and then you just run a simple app on your phone which logs data coming in over bluetooth SPP. This could be a generic terminal program or a custom made app. I have already made a skeleton app on android which has the basic bluetooth functionality and have gotten it to communicate with an HC06 module so thats not a pipe dream.

    So the electronics just spit data out constantly over bluetooth. Your phone does the logging. With the app running in the background it can detect that the logger is paired and log automatically so you never have to do anything. You just bring your phone with you.

    You can have the phone save the log into a spot on your phone that you can easily access over wifi or with a USB cable. Tada! Basically the same as removable storage just a little more inconvenient.

    The bluetooth interface also opens up the possibility of real-time plotting of data on the phone but thats something to deal with after the foundation of logging is done.

    Technically right at this moment I can read data from the SBEC using DTGAUGE electronics and send it over the air via bluetooth to an app I wrote on the Android phone. Its just that all those pieces havent been done simultaneously yet because I've been "proving" them separately. All thats needed is to get a solid and fast protocol figured out and I can do that by looking at how the OTC2000 talks to the SBEC.

    Can we have a show of hands of how many people have android phones? I'm not sure if apple supports bluetooth SPP or not. If it does then iphones should work too. But I aint writing no apple software thats for sure.

    And not to continue to ramble but I am also debating whether or not a multi-line/graphical display is really effective. Little letters stop being a gauge and start being a use-at-standstill diagnostic tool. And in that case, you may as well log whatever you are figuring out, or just look at one sensor at a time. Nobody is going to be looking at 4 knock retard numbers simultaneously while WOTting it. Thats not a useful feature IMO. Real-time knock counts or perhaps a single knock retard number that shows whatever cylinder has the most KR would be useful though. But those only require a display which shows a few digits.
    ;

  17. #37
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    Can we have a show of hands of how many people have android phones? I'm not sure if apple supports bluetooth SPP or not. If it does then iphones should work too. But I aint writing no apple software thats for sure.

    I have an Android(GS3),
    and this is going into areas that are getting more and more interesting!

  18. #38
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    I have 3 working Android phones, a Android tablet, and an Android PC stick plugged into an old monitor. As soon as the Android image for my Win 8 convertible is stable, it will be dual booting...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
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  19. #39
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Android here too.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

  20. #40
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    Re: ultra cheap gauge to display any ECU parameter

    Quote Originally Posted by knownenemy View Post

    I have an Android(GS3),
    and this is going into areas that are getting more and more interesting!
    wtf it must be a SOL22 post..yep...I wonder what nightmares Ill be having tonight

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