Intake/Exhaust Pressure Ratio's - what's the big deal?

[Force Fed Mopar]

A Proper tubular header would be more in the 800.00-1500.00 range, depending on turbo location

That's kinda what I was thinking also.

There's really no way to make a "one size fits all" header that will work properly. There would have to be at least 2 different ones I think, one for stock to mild builds, and one for full race builds with large ports, valves, intakes etc.

[Shadow]

That's kinda what I was thinking also.

There's really no way to make a "one size fits all" header that will work properly. There would have to be at least 2 different ones I think, one for stock to mild builds, and one for full race builds with large ports, valves, intakes etc.

I think you Could build a "one size fits all", but it would have to be the "all out" version and 1200.00. Remember, Warren's header Keeps the stock location

[Force Fed Mopar]

Hmm, yeah possibly. I guess the exhaust ports really don't increase in size much, (excluding Warren's maybe lol) so primary size requirements wouldn't be much different. That's mainly what I was thinking about. That and the length of them.

[acannell]

Something I have sort of forgotten, but am now remembering, is that I long ago abandoned the idea of making a tubular header product. Or at the very least its below the priority of a) intake manifold and b) swingvalve products, and then perhaps below c) electronics things to log data more efficiently and completely. I kind of wish it was high up on the priority list since it would be a fun product to work on, but I just dont see it as a roadblock to most people since Shadow has been able to get so far with the stock one.

Still, I'm faced with tantalizing possibilities as far as coming up with a tubular header, because of several special factors:

-I already have a tubular, near-equal length header with ~14" primaries, that is stock location, and has survived 1000's of miles. It has too much hand-fitment and not-quite-square-cut angles to copy directly, but I could use it as a guide for how the tubes need to be for stock-fitment, so that HUGE amount of trial-and-error work is done.

-Now that I know how to/and have machinery to CNC cut tubing to precision angles, I could drastically cut down on the labor and therefore the price of a complex header with lots of curvature.

-And also since I have alot more equipment and knowledge than last time around, I could make more complex fixtures to make assembly and welding much easier.

-Ive already figured out solutions for the starter and power steering pump fitment/heat shielding issues

But I just dont see how I can say "you need this and should buy this" to anyone...including myself! For all I know longer primaries reduce exhaust energy enough to hurt turbo performance below certain power levels??? Maybe a tubular header with long primaries is worse than a short header that is more similar to the stock header but just bigger? I dont know.

[Force Fed Mopar]

The way I see it, the header is something that people interested in optimizing a setup are going to want. Whether a street setup with a stock or mild turbo, head etc, or a race setup needing the quickest spool at a required power level, a tube header can eek out that last little bit.

If you just want to make 400 whp and don't care how, then the header is not essential.

[GLHNSLHT2]

In the same way that, thankfully, the following things are apparently not needed for 500hp: billet connecting rods, $1500 cnc ported heads, 9,000rpm, 60psi, 0.6" lift etc...the more things we can get on the list of "not needed" for a power level that is "very high" the better IMO. I think its reasonable to say a majority of TD/TM'rs will have more fun if that bar gets lower and lower and lower.

I got billet connecting rods to be able to get them in a longer than stock length besides saving weight while doing so. Are they needed to make 500hp? No probably not. But the better rod ratio and lighter weight excite me. I really want to build a turbo 8v tall deck next with long billet rods. I love an engine that revs up 2grand with just the tiniest blip of the throttle.

[Shadow]

I'm in the process of building a couple 4-500WHP 8v's right now and I can tell you I'm Not using stock rods in either of them!

Just because the Charger is alive with stock rods at this power level doesn't guarantee that the next set will go 600WHP! lol

I've got to be close to the limit, if not past it already! I would be comfortable building one of our mtrs for up to 400WHP with stock rods. (maybe 450) Once someone is talking beyond that, I think it's just wise to go with something a little safer.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Usually aftermarket forged will not only increase strength but also save some weight. So for the price it's generally a win-win. Especially since reconditioned T2 rods are $200 a set, not counting any polishing, shotpeening, heat or cryo treating etc.