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Thread: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

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    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    The 568/523 hybrid in my Lebaron will not shift quickly at all above 4500-5k. I've seen people post about their clutch being too heavy and causing difficulty in shifting at the track, is this what they are talking about? I know the selector lever at the trans is a little loose right now and needs to be fixed, but it's always been this way even when it was fresh. Below 4500 I can shift it just as quick as I want.

    If this is the problem, throw some clutch recommendations out there for me. It's going to need replacing soon, so if this is an issue I'd like to solve it when I change it out. Needs to hold up to 400lbs of torque, as I plan on pushing the power level up (currently around 240whp). Current clutch is an FWD 4 puck and matching pressure plate. Been in there for about 3-4 years now, done street and track duty, few mountain runs, lotta daily driving, so I can't complain.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  2. #2
    turbo addict
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    just wonder what lube weight your using?

  3. #3
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    5000 rpms is not an RPM where even a very used transmission will fail to shift because of a heavier stock style clutch.
    The downside of a really worn synchro? My Duster will shift smooth to 2nd at 7000 but not at 1500 rpms crunch!

    If you are in the stock RPM range with stockish style clutch, it needs to shift. If it doesn't, you have something going wrong. Even fluid as mentioned above. Pretty sure you run 5w20 from memory though, not gear oil which would cause problems.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    Yeah 5w20 conventional oil. I'll fix that shifter lever and see if that helps. Might need to adjust the cables too.

    What is the proper procedure for adjusting the shift cables on a 523/543/568?
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  5. #5
    turbo addict
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    you think a 4 puck is heavier than a stock unit?

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    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    I dunno, never weighed them. From memory the discs felt about the same, but maybe not. Anyway, that wasn't what I was trying to say, what I was saying is I've seen guys mention that clutch weight is a factor is shifting speed in the higher rpm range. However it seems that's only in a range that I am not hitting yet, so probably I have another problem, like the selector lever, bushings, adjustment etc.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

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    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    Well, clutch weight IS the biggest issue with high rpm shifting assuming nothing else is wrong, but you have something else wrong. Any trouble shifting at 4500-5000 rpm is going to be trans related. All of my 5spd cars can shift quickly at that speed with stock-style clutches or a 4puck.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

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    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    I would start by making sure everything is "tight" Most of my missed gears over the years were more due to slop in the system than anything.

    You probably already checked this stuff but some things to consider:
    -Shift cable bushings
    -Make sure the cables are not kinked or binding and clipped firmly in place
    -lever on shifter housing on trans (can re-drill for larger roll pin)
    -Shift fork pads

    Regarding the clutch/flywheel:
    -Yes lower mass will aid in easier high rpm shifting
    -Unspring hub will be better than a sprung hub, maybe due to less mass and less vibration

    ...with that said, if everything is working right you can WOT shift a sprung full disk clutch

    JT
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    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    Selector lever on mine was rocking around, loose as hell even with a fresh O/S roll pin. Loctite stud mount took care of things nicely.

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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    What's the procedure for adjusting the shifter cables?
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  11. #11
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    Technically speaking, the procedure first requires you to flip the pin on the transmission to lock it in neutral. Then you have to have the adjuster screw that should be stored on the side of the shifter. Its then threaded into the shifter and turned to 15-20 inch lbs last I remembered. Then you loosen and tighten the cable ends.How I do it is just leave the car in neutral, loosen both cable ends, then tighten them with the shifter dead center per its normal "throw" either three or four plane. Never failed to give me the right "adjustment"

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    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    Selector lever on mine was rocking around, loose as hell even with a fresh O/S roll pin. Loctite stud mount took care of things nicely.
    Yeah, I had to drill out the hole in the shaft and go a bit larger pin

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    What's the procedure for adjusting the shifter cables?
    As turismolover22 said, the pin in the shifter housing will lock the selector centered. For 520/555 there are two cables to adjust and the lock screw and plastic spacer that is supposed to be bolted to the side of the shifter. For A568 only one cable adjusts and I don't think there is a screw to hold it, or at least mine didn't have it.

    JT
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  13. #13
    turbo addict
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    Just wondering how many times the flywheel has been machined or how much you think has been taken off it . the reason i ask i have been running into clutch jobs done at other shops in town lately that hang shift and when i pull them apart i find that the flywheel need to have a shim put between the crank and the flywheel to get the pressure plate to fully release .

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    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    Make sure to do a roll test to see if your clutch is dragging.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    The 568 doesn't have the pin in the top of the shift tower, which is why I was asking how you're supposed to set the cables. I was assuming you put it in first gear and then adjusted. Maybe I'll try centering it in neutral.

    The clutch disengages fine I think. AFAIK the flywheel's only been surfaced once. I'm going to replace the rollpin in the selector lever, replace the bushings, and adjust the cables, and see how that does.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

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    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: High rev shifting difficulty, clutch too heavy?

    Reverse isnt synchronized so if your clutch is not fully releasing you will be able to hear it when you SLOWLY put it into reverse after having the clutch in for a good long while.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

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