TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

[moparzrule]

Sad thing is, I'm really not kidding...

It didn't sound made up, I believed you. But was still funny.

[83scamp]

I guess your Charger is the baddest thing on the planet. Give it up!!! I thought this was a place to share and have fun! Your posts that toot your own horn nearly makes me puke!! If i get banned because of this post, so be it!

Show us two other examples of documented 10 second Chargers... Youtube videos, anything....

I think Rob has earned a little bragging rights here... IMHO, he does have the baddest Charger on the planet...

[glhs875]

Show us two other examples of documented 10 second Chargers... Youtube videos, anything....

I think Rob has earned a little bragging rights here... IMHO, he does have the baddest Charger on the planet...

Never did I say his car is not impressive or fast! But he doesn't have to brag,and sound like a know it all about it! And seriously, what is really all that different about his car/combo from that of other members cars on this forum other than Rob is running higher boost levels than most everyone. I guess I will just skip over Rob's posts in the future because he just seems to rub me the wrong way often in the posts.

[85glht]

I have run into this before, so let me see if I can't give you my perspective; There is a reason they say "Only a fool represents themselves in a court of law." Simply because someone Else (lawer usually) can say Anything they want, they can Make you out to be the Best thing since sliced bread and it is Accepted!

On the other hand, IF anyone get's up and speaks highly of themselves (even if it's 100% True and the Layer was Lying through his Teeth) they are Deemed conceited and full of themselves.

When I first started having to speak to a lot of people about the Charger, I referred to it as "my car". It didn't take long and it was ME that wanted to Puke! lol I just couldn't Stand hearing myself say that over and over again, and yes, it Felt like i was talking about Myself.

This bothered me on several different levels, but what bothered me Most was the Fact that there were more people involved in the Charger's success than just me.

It was not too long after that I adopted the phrase "The Charger" rather than My car. This Worked for me! So well that I don't even notice when I talking about it. It has become it's Own entity and I feel No connection to my person when talking about it.

Having said that, I Still hear where you're coming from. I have asked several people over the years what they think about me addressing the Charger in that manner. Most have said, "Ya, it must work because I Never thought of you as having a Big Head and I've read and heard you talk about it till the Cow's come home! lol"

Others have said it makes No difference, and a Few Others even said it was worse! lol They said it makes it sound like I'm giving the car More importance by doing that, and that it was almost like the Royal "We" that the Queen uses, speaking of it in the third person!

So, I really can't win one this on and I have come to accept that. I spoke up because a Bad eg. was given and it needed to be corrected. Most Want to know the Truth about things so they can make Better decisions on their own builds. IF I were to let people say whatever they want in reference to the Charger and Not correct the info, how does that Help the community to See what simply Works?

Peace Bro

It doesn't matter to me how you address your car.... You sh!t rolls!! The numbers posted in your sig is impressive!!

I don't know what I'm doing wrong other than a loss of interest of getting more power out of my car. Having a different cam for my car would be of some interest to me though.... Hence me reading through this thread.




Continue.....

[crusty shadow]

Pffft, my cam is bigger than your cam.

That's more or less the impression that I got about Chris's attitude about this whole thing.

I don't even get what all the fuss is about with these longer duration low lift cams. 496/501? yawn....

[acannell]

it makes it sound like I'm giving the car More importance by doing that, and that it was almost like the Royal "We" that the Queen uses, speaking of it in the third person!

And this is how it should be...the vette, the Benz, the learjet, the charger. ...it's the best grammar for cars imo..the most smug and therefore the most entertaining. .. plus it's offensive and alienating to non car people

[acannell]

you can count the halo cars for our little tdtm world on one hand...the more they announce their accomplishments and discoveries the better I say...things would definitely be more boring without them...remember what they do so can you and they are happy to help and teach

[turbovanman²]

I don't think there is any chest thumping going on by anyone, vendors are tired of getting beaten up everytime they bring out new products so they get their backs up. I am really surprised they stick around.

Id like to hear it, and why not in this thread? This thread really has nowhere to go besides discussing cams in general and then when we get detailed specs on the R5 we (the un-knowing types like myself) will have a better foundation on which to further discuss the R5..lets hear it!

I would assume there are turbine maps analagous to compressor maps?

Im starting to get itchy...I want to measure the daytonas pressure ratio lol!!

I think it would be more of a topic that deserves its own thread and easier to discuss than wade thru this whatever thread.

Simon, please try to pay attention to what is being said and what you are asking, otherwise you will end up throwing More confusion into this then needed.

There is No contradiction, the Q you asked before was about BOOST pressure having an effect on a cam, now you're talking about intake manifolds. lol

You started off saying intakes don't affect or aren't affected by camshaft selection, then you say it does. Which one is it? IMHO, I think that camshafts ARE affected by intakes, it does in the V8 world etc and head work, etc all play a key in camshaft selection, if it didn't, Nascar engines wouldn't make the power they do with restrictor plates on the intake.

[crusty shadow]

IMHO, I think that camshafts ARE affected by intakes, it does in the V8 world etc and head work, etc all play a key in camshaft selection, if it didn't, Nascar engines wouldn't make the power they do with restrictor plates on the intake.

you kind of have it right but you're backwards, intakes are affected by the camshaft. I know this from personal experience in the V8 world.

[Shadow]

You started off saying intakes don't affect or aren't affected by camshaft selection, then you say it does. Which one is it? IMHO, I think that camshafts ARE affected by intakes, it does in the V8 world etc and head work, etc all play a key in camshaft selection, if it didn't, Nascar engines wouldn't make the power they do with restrictor plates on the intake.

What does it take to get through to you bro? I Told you the mistake you were making and to READ it more carefully so you could understand what was being said.

This is the post you asked me about;




Originally Posted by Shadow
This statement shows you know absolutely Nothing about cams or performance PERIOD! Boost, on the intake side has ZERO to do with cam selection!!!!!!!!!!



Can you explain this one please?

It has Nothing to do with intake effect on cam selection. It is Only speaking of BOOST effect on cam selection.

Get it now?

[turbovanman²]

you kind of have it right but you're backwards, intakes are affected by the camshaft. I know this from personal experience in the V8 world.

LOL, yeah, what you said,

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What does it take to get through to you bro? I Told you the mistake you were making and to READ it more carefully so you could understand what was being said.

This is the post you asked me about;




Originally Posted by Shadow
This statement shows you know absolutely Nothing about cams or performance PERIOD! Boost, on the intake side has ZERO to do with cam selection!!!!!!!!!!



Can you explain this one please?

It has Nothing to do with intake effect on cam selection. It is Only speaking of BOOST effect on cam selection.

Get it now?

I did read and boost has everything to do with camshaft design as well as head and intake selection. You of all people should know that. I am not going to get into a pissing match over it.

[Shadow]

Never did I say his car is not impressive or fast! But he doesn't have to brag,and sound like a know it all about it! And seriously, what is really all that different about his car/combo from that of other members cars on this forum other than Rob is running higher boost levels than most everyone. I guess I will just skip over Rob's posts in the future because he just seems to rub me the wrong way often in the posts.

You've hit the nail right on the head! How easy it is to believe the only difference is that I run higher boost than everyone else.

That is the biggest misconception and cop-out there is, and I've heard it too many times to count.

Many have tried, and many have even run Higher boost than the Charger and with Bigger turbo's and Still couldn't make more power.

The simple Fact is that the Charger has made power to 39psi and it's Not done there. (it's still gaining a MPH/ lb of boost) I don't know of another 8v that can say the same except Warren's.

So that Myth (that I just run more boost than anyone else) needs to Die, because it just ain't true. Believe me, if others could do it, they would. (and maybe in the not so distant future they will )

How can I answer Q's that I Don't see anyone else attempting to answer without sounding like a "know it all"? How (in your mind) can I talk about the Charger without it sounding like bragging?

Simple answer; I Can't, it has to do with how You want to perceive what is being said. My answers would be no different if I were using any other car that I was as familiar with than they are with the Charger.

Again, you are entitle to your opinion, sorry I rub you the wrong way.

[moparzrule]

[moparzrule]

[Shadow]

So what do you think of this:

Lets say we want to develop a cam selection flow chart for a given engine.

Something like "Measure drive pressure. If > 1.5:1, no benefit in increasing duration. If > 2:1, reduce exhaust and intake restrictions and remeasure, then go back to step 1. If ~ 1:1, increase duration by xx degrees" etc..

And then slowly hone those decision making steps into something really precise?

Well, that would be the Bomb, but think about what you're saying. I can tell you that the largest % of people do not or can not pay That much attention to detail.

There are only a few individuals that would be capable of what you're proposing and it would take a Lifetime to do that much R&D and data collecting.

I have been Hounding people to pressure tap their systems for over 5 years and I've got maybe 4-5 to do it! Warren first posted his cam results what, 8 years ago or longer? Nothing came of it till I took his advise and slapped the F4 into the Charger. Now here we are 5 years later and a few are starting to run the F4 and see the results I was talking about.

This community moves SLOWLY if it even moves at all!

So I think you have a Great idea, but the reality is that people will choose a cam based on same type build/ same type gains much sooner than doing the kind of "real work" you are describing my friend.

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Now That's Funny! lol

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I did read and boost has everything to do with camshaft design as well as head and intake selection. You of all people should know that. I am not going to get into a pissing match over it.

Fair enough, agree to disagree you're on your own bro......

[crusty shadow]

I have been Hounding people to pressure tap their systems for over 5 years and I've got maybe 4-5 to do it! Warren first posted his cam results what, 8 years ago or longer? Nothing came of it till I took his advise and slapped the F4 into the Charger. Now here we are 5 years later and a few are starting to run the F4 and see the results I was talking about.

I've never done that. I assume it's as simple as drilling and tapping a hole in the exhaust manifold and installing a gauge or a heat resistant map sensor?

[acannell]

I've never done that. I assume it's as simple as drilling and tapping a hole in the exhaust manifold and installing a gauge or a heat resistant map sensor?

I'm definitely going to be doing this.

Crusty shadow: RGL10 did it and has a video of it http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...ml#post3410673

[dwh4784]

This community moves SLOWLY if it even moves at all!

What are you talking about? Nobody hung onto the old logic that the 1 piece was all the intake you'd ever need. And there was never any resistance to trying PT lifters in these things. Or that a wide band is necessary over the old narrow band. Those are distinct examples where this community embraced discussion and changes right from the......yeah never mind you got me. Heck I resisted all three for years and still use a 1 piece.

[GLHS60]

Hey Shadow, please keep posting, your info. is as good as it gets and better than almost all the rest!!!

Thanks
Randy

[glhs875]

You've hit the nail right on the head! How easy it is to believe the only difference is that I run higher boost than everyone else.

That is the biggest misconception and cop-out there is, and I've heard it too many times to count.

Many have tried, and many have even run Higher boost than the Charger and with Bigger turbo's and Still couldn't make more power.

The simple Fact is that the Charger has made power to 39psi and it's Not done there. (it's still gaining a MPH/ lb of boost) I don't know of another 8v that can say the same except Warren's.

So that Myth (that I just run more boost than anyone else) needs to Die, because it just ain't true. Believe me, if others could do it, they would. (and maybe in the not so distant future they will )

How can I answer Q's that I Don't see anyone else attempting to answer without sounding like a "know it all"? How (in your mind) can I talk about the Charger without it sounding like bragging?

Simple answer; I Can't, it has to do with how You want to perceive what is being said. My answers would be no different if I were using any other car that I was as familiar with than they are with the Charger.

Again, you are entitle to your opinion, sorry I rub you the wrong way.

If you truly want the misconception of the higher boost levels as being the reason to die, then why don't you say in this thread the very reason (s) that make (s) your combo so special/better than everyone else. And if you truly want to help people learn and progress, I feel you should let the cat (s) out of the bag (in simple straight to the point words)! It could change my opinion if you would. Otherwise the opinion I have and I am sure others have will remain the same. Of the parts that I have seen mentioned in your combo I fail to see anything really different or special from what many other members have on this forum and other forums as well. And not only Turbo Dodge forums,but other manufacturers/brands. What's the secret (s)? 39 PSI x 12 horsepower per PSI equals adding 468 horsepower to what ever the engine makes N/A (approx. 100 horsepower) which equals a total of 568 horsepower. That is real close to your horsepower claim but of the norm to what MANY other people make or can make with there combo!