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Thread: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

  1. #21
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    "Problem #2. You need to be able to keep all other parameters equal. Almost no one else seems to be able to do this. Change ONE thing and see the difference and Stick with it till you get the result."

    Logically, that right there is the wrong approach. If you change the cam you have to change a lot of parameters along with the cam to compensate for the extra airflow that this cam will produce. If you don't, it is going to throw everything off and instead of gaining performance you might loose it. Also, all engines are not equal, a cam change in car A will have different results in car B even though the are using the same cam; after a cam change tuning is the key.

    I've build a lot of engines, and that is one thing I emphasize, ONE item WILL NOT MAKE POWER! It is the combination of changes in the system to compensate for that ONE change that will make the difference.
    My advice? Get the R5 cam and tune accordingly and you will not be disappointed!

    Reinaldo Moloon
    Last edited by Rattlesnake; 11-03-2014 at 11:18 AM. Reason: spelling

  2. #22
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post

    All the while I Never once said anything Negative about your clutch, just questioned it's capabilities of being able to hold the kind of Power I would be making, because it Didn't look right to me on paper, and I was Right! IF I would have run your clutch I would have had to replace it by now, which is what Reeves will have to do, because it's Not made to handle this much power and driving (traction) conditions.
    Our clutches were already being tested by Pat Culkin and other members. We didn't need another sponsor vehicle. Sorry if we offended you by turning your offer down. We are the vendor and in the end it is our decision who we have testing our products. Everyone here knows that Pat is a man of integrity who would never embellish for the sake of receiving something for free. You on the other hand......

    Looks like all of your clutch advice couldn't help with FWD's clutch line otherwise James Reeves would have had one in his car. The fact that a FWD Performance sponsored vehicle has been running a TU Clutch for years now speaks VOLUMES. Thanks for letting the cat out of the bag Rob We have known this for years and have kept it off the forums. Another reason why we did not feel you would be a valuable sponsor for our products. Go ahead and talk about my hand on my back while we all watch you continue to stick your foot in your mouth.

    I have cams to ship so no more response from me.........

    Chris-TU

    BTW- you never addressed the "Billet" statement. I figured you would skip over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    "Problem #2. You need to be able to keep all other parameters equal. Almost no one else seems to be able to do this. Change ONE thing and see the difference and Stick with it till you get the result."
    Quote Originally Posted by Rattlesnake View Post
    Logically, that right there is the wrong approach. If you change the cam you have to change a lot of parameters along with the cam to compensate for the extra airflow that this cam will produce. If you don't, it is going to throw everything off and instead of gaining performance you might loose it. Also, all engines are not equal, a cam change in car A will have different results in car B even though the are using the same cam; after a cam change tuning is the key.

    I've build a lot of engines, and that is one thing I emphasize, ONE item WILL NOT MAKE POWER! It is the combination of changes in the system to compensate for that ONE change that will make the difference.
    My advice? Get the R5 cam and tune accordingly and you will not be disappointed!

    Reinaldo Moloon
    Thanks for chiming in Reinaldo. You are like a breathe of fresh air around here. Good to see you back on the list CW
    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  3. #23
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris W View Post
    Our clutches were already being tested by Pat Culkin and other members. We didn't need another sponsor vehicle. Sorry if we offended you by turning your offer down. We are the vendor and in the end it is our decision who we have testing our products. Everyone here knows that Pat is a man of integrity who would never embellish for the sake of receiving something for free. You on the other hand......

    Looks like all of your clutch advice couldn't help with FWD's clutch line otherwise James Reeves would have had one in his car. The fact that a FWD Performance sponsored vehicle has been running a TU Clutch for years now speaks VOLUMES. Thanks for letting the cat out of the bag Rob We have known this for years and have kept it off the forums. Another reason why we did not feel you would be a valuable sponsor for our products. Go ahead and talk about my hand on my back while we all watch you continue to stick your foot in your mouth.

    I have cams to ship so no more response from me.........

    Chris-TU
    Nice to know that you are the Same Liar and Cheat that you were back then Chris. Turned me down? Seriously? That is an Outright Lie, or you are seriously delusional.

    After you PM'd me trying to convince me that your Slanderous actions on the open forum were brought on by your "friends" trying to tell you I just wanted a Free clutch, I Turned You Down!

    You continued to PM me for several Weeks asking if I was ready to go along with the TU purple clutch and it was I who told You that my instinct was warning me Not to do business with you because you had already shown your Snake skin.

    Do you really think that you can just twist things around and Lie openly and everyone is going to just believe it? They really broke the mold when they made you bro.

    What made James want to try your clutch I can't say, but certainly Not because of your good natured character........

    I warned that your clutch would Not be up to the task, and low and behold....it Was NOT.

    You are a jealous, envious individual Chris, one day you really need to look at yourself in the mirror and ask if this is Really who you want to be recognized as?

    This thread had Nothing negative to say about your cam and wasn't even started by me. That is, until You decided to get Offended and try to make it into some personal battle that you obviously still have ragging in your head from years ago when I (knowing better) Refused your offer.

    Do you notice a pattern? I come on and simply state the Truth and Facts of the matter.

    You come on and and make up a bunch of Lies in an attempt to "throw the audience" and Avoid all Q's.

    You can Believe I was offended all you like, but those who know me know different. You can also believe that putting your clutch into James car and Costing him at Least 2 years of racing, Not going as fast as he should is a Good thing. (there's that Ever so present hand on the back again)

    You really must wear some dusty shirts, cause all that patting is clearly clouding any semblance of better judgment you may have otherwise had through All of this!

    So you go count your $'s like you just said because we all know by now that is Far more important (to You) than a Real conversation about Real performance possibilities...........

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  4. #24
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rattlesnake View Post
    "Problem #2. You need to be able to keep all other parameters equal. Almost no one else seems to be able to do this. Change ONE thing and see the difference and Stick with it till you get the result."

    Logically, that right there is the wrong approach. If you change the cam you have to change a lot of parameters along with the cam to compensate for the extra airflow that this cam will produce. If you don't, it is going to throw everything off and instead of gaining performance you might loose it. Also, all engines are not equal, a cam change in car A will have different results in car B even though the are using the same cam; after a cam change tuning is the key.

    I've build a lot of engines, and that is one thing I emphasize, ONE item WILL NOT MAKE POWER! It is the combination of changes in the system to compensate for that ONE change that will make the difference.
    My advice? Get the R5 cam and tune accordingly and you will not be disappointed!

    Reinaldo Moloon
    Then please explain to me how the Charger gained 30-40WHP coming from an already 480WHP (Mustang dyno, so more like 550 Dynojet) with Just a cam swap (F4) and obviously the right springs to go with? And at 3-4psi Less boost to boot!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  5. #25
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    This thread is pretty sad.

    All the vendors that help out this small community are of value and I really don't like reading this type of trash.

    I've purchased from all vendors and have had great experiences with all and I have found them all to be great folks and I'm sure non of whom think seving such a small community is a get rich quick skeem, they're in it most due to the enjoyment they get out of this hobby.


    Said that now we can burn this thread.

  6. #26
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaboon View Post
    This thread is pretty sad.

    All the vendors that help out this small community are of value and I really don't like reading this type of trash.

    I've purchased from all vendors and have had great experiences with all and I have found them all to be great folks and I'm sure non of whom think seving such a small community is a get rich quick skeem, they're in it most due to the enjoyment they get out of this hobby.


    Said that now we can burn this thread.
    I couldn't agree more, but it all went south when Chris made his first post! Before that is was just a cam discussion thread where I believe we were all happy to wait and see what might happen on the 15th

    Controlled by EGO = Offended, Once Offended = bye bye reason............

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  7. #27
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Then please explain to me how the Charger gained 30-40WHP coming from an already 480WHP (Mustang dyno, so more like 550 Dynojet) with Just a cam swap (F4) and obviously the right springs to go with? And at 3-4psi Less boost to boot!
    "and obviously the right springs to go with" There you go!

  8. #28
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    I am not a cam expert but does this cam look promising? I am getting a cam this winter to go with the BMF intake. It appears this cam has more lift than the F4. The duration seems to be at different lifts, so a direct comparison by a rookie is difficult. Just looking for input or first impressions, about the cam. Thanks

  9. #29
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Every major cam manufacturer gives the specs at .050'' lift to properly measure duration, so you'd have to ask FWD what those specs are to properly compare. Unless someone can find this info in the cam doctor thread, I don't see any info ever actually posted. I really want to know!

    On a positive note, I received my R5 cam today! Thing looks like a beast cam, woot! Lobes are so much bigger than stock it's ridiculous LOL. Not saying that makes it better, just a cool observation. Lets let the timeslips tell the story

  10. #30
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaboon View Post
    This thread is pretty sad.

    Agreed. I can't believe that I read all this SH!t. I just want to know if this new cam makes more power than what is out there.


    Since winter is coming, I will wait till spring to buy one..... Hopefully by then, some answers will be given.

  11. #31
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    I will be running it on the 15th with it and will have timeslips to go along with it. We'll see.

  12. #32
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by moparzrule View Post
    I will be running it on the 15th with it and will have timeslips to go along with it. We'll see.
    !! So its a sure thing now? Car fully built and tuned on the 15th??? WEEEEEE man you werent kidding about getting it going!

  13. #33
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    I do not know very much about cams, but I have a question.

    Isnt comparing cams by specification alone sort of misleading? After all, its not like making a larger duration or certain LSA or any of that is more expensive or more difficult. The grinding and machining work stays the same regardless of cam geometry, correct?

    Isnt a cam a special case where 100% of what you get for your money the thinking that went into the design? As in the knowledge/theory about how it will affect airflow given a certain intake tract and engine setup?

  14. #34
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Rob, I would tread lightly. Frank already addressed you at least 3 times in this thread.

    For him to do that speaks volumes about your approach.

  15. #35
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    To give an idea of what total duration on this R5 cam may be, camparing it to the Comp Cam 292 magnum cam that I had in my 440 had .501 valve lift along with
    292 degrees total duration w/ 244 degrees duration @ .050 lift. So my guess would be that the total duration of the R5 to be in the high 280 to low 290 degree range. That would make it a fairly wild cam!

  16. #36
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    !! So its a sure thing now? Car fully built and tuned on the 15th??? WEEEEEE man you werent kidding about getting it going!
    As long as I don't blow it up tuning it, I'm going! I might freeze my azz off depending on how cold it is, my heater core leaked so I had to just loop that line until I get a chance to change it out lol. But, it's kind of a good thing as it motivates me to get that dash ripped out to take out the AC evaporator which is fairly heavy, and then the new heater core replacement is aluminum rather than copper so it's probably 1-2 pounds lighter (hey every little bit helps eh?). I doubt I'll get that done before the 15th since I have this cam to get a tune done for now too. Screw having heat, I NEEDZ MOAR POWER

    Quote Originally Posted by glhs875 View Post
    To give an idea of what total duration on this R5 cam may be, camparing it to the Comp Cam 292 magnum cam that I had in my 440 had .501 valve lift along with
    292 degrees total duration w/ 244 degrees duration @ .050 lift. So my guess would be that the total duration of the R5 to be in the high 280 to low 290 degree range. That would make it a fairly wild cam!
    The advertised duration means absolutely zip on all cams. I have the cam card for the R5, but I doubt Chris would want me posting it.

    But what I can say, is that 243 duration at .050 on a 4 cylinder is indeed a very wild cam. A ''moderate'' cam for a street small block V8 has about 224 duration at .050'' lift. The less cubic inches you have, typically the harsher the idle lope at a given duration.

  17. #37
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    The advertised duration means absolutely zip on all cams. I have the cam card for the R5, but I doubt Chris would want me posting it.

    But what I can say, is that 243 duration at .050 on a 4 cylinder is indeed a very wild cam. A ''moderate'' cam for a street small block V8 has about 224 duration at .050'' lift. The less cubic inches you have, typically the harsher the idle lope at a given duration.[/QUOTE]

    The 113.5 lobe separation will tame the idle down somewhat over a cam with 110 or 108 or lower lobe separation. The higher the lobe separation in degrees the less degrees in overlap there are.

  18. #38
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    That's true, if you assume the LSA is the same as the centerline (we don't know yet).

  19. #39
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by 85glht View Post
    I just want to know if this new cam makes more power than what is out there.
    This was all I wanted to know. Nobody has address this or posted specs on what gains could be had. I'm not rich enough to buy a cam with info unknown lol.

  20. #40
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: TU and F4 Camshaft Follow-on Discussion

    It's literally impossible to speculate what gains COULD be had. No one can know what gains there are until people run them. They JUST shipped out, people don't even have them in their hands yet for crying out loud. It'll be a few days until I dial in my calibration for the stock cam, then I will be playing with the R5.

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