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Thread: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

  1. #1
    turbo addict
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    lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Within the next month or two, I will have in my machining arsenal both a CNC 4th axis, and the software required to generate spiral bevel gear models.

    AFAIK, spiral bevel gears are those in the differential.

    I believe the other 1 to 5 gears are helical.

    Both types are something I can make models for.

    And with the 4th axis, I can machine them.

    I actually already have the 4th axis, but its not CNC yet. Theoretically, I could just use it manually to index the gear as its being machined. But its going to be converted to CNC to open up more functionality.

    The consequences of this are that it may be possible for me to make, of arbitrary specification, material, and design:

    -ring gears
    -spider gears
    -lockers/limited slips
    -1 to 5 gears

    In the interests of entertainment and possibly new products, is there anything that would be a good first project?

    Good candidates are things that have never existed before. I.e. making a copy of the ring gear that already exists is kinda pointless. But making a ring gear with a tooth count that has never existed for our cars might be interesting. Or perhaps a new locker component or something?










  2. #2
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    A413 transfer gears!
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    2-4 speed gears in the 555/568 and new synchronizer slider collars.

  4. #4
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    A413 transfer gears!
    what is that? is that a new part?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    2-4 speed gears in the 555/568 and new synchronizer slider collars.
    stock replacements or something thats never existed?

  5. #5
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    pro shift or face plate shift conversions. Os gliken style plate type limited slip.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

  6. #6
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Quote Originally Posted by shackwrrr View Post
    pro shift or face plate shift conversions. Os gliken style plate type limited slip.
    can we hear a little about the benefits of such upgrades? i.e. why its better than what exists etc..

    The idea here is to get as much excitement going as possible so the entertainment value is maximized..this doesnt have to turn into a new product necessarily but it does need to be fun/interesting, plus I'm going to need a project to stretch the legs of the new equipment and work out all the bugs so its win win all around

    HUGE bonus points would go to tranny parts which high-power racers are breaking..its even more fun to make an upgraded part and then have them try it out to see if it fails or not

  7. #7
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Face plates are good first of all because replacement parts don't exist :P and racing tends to kill what parts are left much faster.
    A lot of transmissions are not broken but are unusable because of NS1 parts.

    Bearing adapters and bearing plates sound good for the 5 speeds.

    Transfer gears for autos would be the most straightforward thing people want and has been done before.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    I think the 5th gear for the 5spds would be one of the most marketable pieces because you dont have to take the transmission out of the car to install it, or use any 'special' tools.

    There aren't many 5spd cars that couldnt use to drop a few hundred rpm on the highway. Especially the guys with 3.85:1 gearsets like the 555/568.

    I dont remember off hand but it's possible you could make one pair of gears that would fit basically ALL the 5spd transmissions.

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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    I think the 5th gear for the 5spds would be one of the most marketable pieces because you dont have to take the transmission out of the car to install it, or use any 'special' tools.

    There aren't many 5spd cars that couldnt use to drop a few hundred rpm on the highway. Especially the guys with 3.85:1 gearsets like the 555/568.

    I dont remember off hand but it's possible you could make one pair of gears that would fit basically ALL the 5spd transmissions.
    I like this..its not really the most exciting idea because its more for fuel economy than performance lol..but it can be swapped into a tranny, like you say, from outside, so it would be alot easier for someone to actually try it.

    And its an actual gear so it will involve all my new tools, software, 4th axis, etc..

    So it deserves honorable mention for sure:

    GEAR/ROTARY TRANNY PART IDEA FUN LIST:

    1. ??

    honorable mention

    -Vigo: 5th gear to lower cruising rpm

  10. #10
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Vigo beat me to it. I would LOVE a numerically lower 5th gear for all of my 5 speeds. As he mentioned, it could go into any of them to boot which would make sales much higher than most other parts. The only thing I could add is that there is a specialty tool for the 89+ transmissions to get the gear off of the input shaft, but you can just hit it with an impact in my experience so it's not an absolute necessity.

    Outside of that, I can't see how you could compete with anything diff wise. The transfer gears would be a good one, but only a few folks would actually buy them IMO.

  11. #11
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    I know the guys who drag race the 3spds would love some lower-geared transfer gears but the people streeting them are usually wanting to go in the other direction and since there is a 2.6:1 ratio with 'common' parts i dont think anyone really wants to go taller than that. So i feel like transfer gears for the 3spd would really only apply to drag racers who don't really drive the car on the street. That's a fairly small subset of this community.

    Can you cut straight splines?

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  12. #12
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    I know the guys who drag race the 3spds would love some lower-geared transfer gears but the people streeting them are usually wanting to go in the other direction and since there is a 2.6:1 ratio with 'common' parts i dont think anyone really wants to go taller than that. So i feel like transfer gears for the 3spd would really only apply to drag racers who don't really drive the car on the street. That's a fairly small subset of this community.

    Can you cut straight splines?
    Straight splines would be tricky. If the spline has a known geometry, especially if its something simple like a V at a certain angle, I could make a custom cutter to do it. Its not out of the question, because I'd like to be able to cut splines for the many things that would need it. So I would say yes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Vigo beat me to it. I would LOVE a numerically lower 5th gear for all of my 5 speeds. As he mentioned, it could go into any of them to boot which would make sales much higher than most other parts. The only thing I could add is that there is a specialty tool for the 89+ transmissions to get the gear off of the input shaft, but you can just hit it with an impact in my experience so it's not an absolute necessity.
    I like it. I have a dead 523 and I think maybe I didnt sell the 5th gear, so it may be sitting in a box in the other room! Any idea how I can tell its the 5th gear? And are you volunteering to install one of my franken-gears if I make one?

    Outside of that, I can't see how you could compete with anything diff wise. The transfer gears would be a good one, but only a few folks would actually buy them IMO.
    Agreed, I wouldnt think there would be a way I could make an OBX for cheaper than an OBX. But what about something that doesn't exist at all? Are there any dream-lockers or locker ideas that have never been made for our trannys?

  13. #13
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    i say u shoot for the lower 5th gear set. i personally think that would be great. as it seems to me my "winter car" 3.0 5spd spirit seems to turn overly high rpm's on the highway. i would say change the ratio by .2 or so say from .85 to .65

  14. #14
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Stock is ~0.72 which is tallish but there's no reason not to go lower if the cars can push it efficiently. Cordes is an excellent gatherer of MPG data so he would be a good guinea pig if willing.

    How far apart is the trans? 5th is the only gear that has to come off to get the shafts out of the bearing plate (is my brain addled? I feel like im lying), so in all likelihood the other ones are still on the shaft and 5th is the only one not currently attached. Or if it is attached it's the one at the opposite end from the input shaft or the pinion gear.

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    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    IMO a gear that would allow for 2250RPM at 70MPH would be ideal. I'll try to run those numbers and get back to you.

  16. #16
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    just did a 5 hour trip last month had to rev pretty high to keep up the speeds we where going. the new 5th would be a great improvement, definitely something i'd buy after some testing is done

  17. #17
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    5th gear would be my friend. Even with very very tall tires my rpms are way too high. Kills MPG as rpms climb towards 3,000. The only thing the stock gear is really good for is racing against slow cars or passing. Would probably make towing terrible :P
    Last edited by Ondonti; 10-19-2014 at 11:38 PM.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  18. #18
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    air locker style diff / a413 & 604 deep sump pans / reiforced diff cover (braced to stop case flex) / 904 input shafts for a413

  19. #19
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    can we hear a little about the benefits of such upgrades? i.e. why its better than what exists etc..

    The idea here is to get as much excitement going as possible so the entertainment value is maximized..this doesnt have to turn into a new product necessarily but it does need to be fun/interesting, plus I'm going to need a project to stretch the legs of the new equipment and work out all the bugs so its win win all around

    HUGE bonus points would go to tranny parts which high-power racers are breaking..its even more fun to make an upgraded part and then have them try it out to see if it fails or not
    A machining center that can do helical gears adn such is amazingly badass! I sooo wish i had one!

    There are some good ideas in this thread!

    For the stick drag racers, the need is actually for a full straight cut "dogbox" gearset. The helical gears are great for production cars being a ton quieter, but the axial loads that the helical put on the shafts tend to damage the bearings, bearign plates, cases, etc. To see broken pictures of all of the above, please see my build thread.

    So a full race gearset would need the following:
    -straight cut speed gears
    -straight cut input shaft
    -straight cut main shaft "pinion"
    -straight cut ring gear

    And while doing this, instead of making the speeds gears with the OEM type synchro teeth, making the spped gears and synchros "faceplated" will add to the strength.

    This would be a TON of work and would probably have to do some R&D to make it work. I'd offer to help and test parts, I know I can put then thru hell adn back

    Maybe turboshad will chime in, I know he's been thnking aling these lines too...

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  20. #20
    Garrett booster
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    Re: lets talk about custom, skys the limit, tranny parts

    Ondonti. What do u think a ideal ratio would be? As low as say .52?

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