88' shelby Z quest for 11's (lots of pics)

[jackerman]

Did you get it a part or could there still be a possibility it could be a wrist pin or something.

[acannell]

Yup, it just slides back and forth, and when it's out it leaves slack for the cable to just flop down when you try to put it in 2nd or 4th gear. Gotta keep it pushed in, so I hose clamped a piece of wire on it and tied it off but the wire broke. I wish I would have kept the 555 and just put a moly plate on it, atleast I would have gotten two decent passes in before it locked up anyway. Probably would have ran some 12's, 60ft time was no where near good enough to approach 11's, plus I was only running 20 PSI.

Interesting, do you have a pic of that?


I might pull the oil pan off if I get a warm enough Saturday, just to see the carnage out of curiosity to know what I'm dealing with.

not just a pic but a whoaaaalle thread!

about to go totally apesh** on my shifter cables

[moparzrule]

Did you get it a part or could there still be a possibility it could be a wrist pin or something.

Dude seriously? lol. This is what I posted just last night, and the post that you just replied after-

I might pull the oil pan off if I get a warm enough Saturday, just to see the carnage out of curiosity to know what I'm dealing with.

[moparzrule]

not just a pic but a whoaaaalle thread!

about to go totally apesh** on my shifter cables

Nice! I might try that ebay shaft collar once I get a replacement cable in, just so I don't break it again. But, now that it's been 4 months, is it still working?

[acannell]

Nice! I might try that ebay shaft collar once I get a replacement cable in, just so I don't break it again. But, now that it's been 4 months, is it still working?

It is still working, and I did try testing it out with several drag-race style launches, but I dont drive that car hard very often. Id really need to do maybe a couple dozen launches to say its proven for sure.

I think that if it fails, it will be because the stop has broken or damaged that tube that it bumps up against. So a clever way to prevent that from happening would be an upgrade. Maybe putting a big rubber thing on that tube so that the forces get transmitted to the metal bracket instead of the tube?

[jackerman]

Hahaha i did read that too sorry idk i just want to hear that the whole motor isnt wasted.

[turbovanman²]

Sorry to hear, wonder if you tweaked something when you went from 3rd to 1st?

Man up princess, make a garage out of tarps, propane heater, done.

[moparzrule]

Went from 1st to 3rd because there was no second gear.

lol, it's a lot easier said than done....especially when you aren't the one without a garage Plus, honestly, I'm busy with working on stuff around the house now. All my money and time is going into installing another bathroom in our house. It's about 75% done now.

[Vigo]

I have one bathroom and 18 cars. I am not suggesting this approach. Carry on!!

[moparzrule]

lol

[moparzrule]

So I think I found out why this happened anyway. I did not realize that with the ARP rod bolts that they aren't torque to yield, so I torqued then same as stock......40ft/lbs and a 1/4 turn. Well I read they are only suppose to have 50ft/lbs and that's it, so I overtorqued the living piss out of them. Great. Well, atleast it's no longer a mystery.

I REALLY wanted to test out that R5 cam though. What I'm thinking, and this may be a bit crazy, is if I drop the pan and replace the rod bearings (hoping that the crank isn't super chewed up, hopefully just scotch brite it a little), maybe I can run it long enough to take it to the dyno again now that I have a 3 bar cal and the 4 bar cal is no longer screwing my top end up. Get it dialed in about 28lb's of boost since I still have C16 in the tank, then swap cams. Again it's all hinging on the fact that the crank isn't super chewed up. I don't care if burns out the bearings on my way home lol I have AAA. That's all I really want is to get that R5 cam tested.


When I end up re-doing everything in the spring I plan to use ARP studs. Anybody know the torque on those? And will they need re-torqued after a few heat cycles? That'd be a real pain to pull the pan just to do that, but now that I've already re-used the stock bolts already I don't really trust to torque them again and hold hopefully 400whp.


BTW I finished my bathroom on Friday

[Ondonti]

So I think I found out why this happened anyway. I did not realize that with the ARP rod bolts that they aren't torque to yield, so I torqued then same as stock......40ft/lbs and a 1/4 turn. Well I read they are only suppose to have 50ft/lbs and that's it, so I overtorqued the living piss out of them. Great. Well, atleast it's no longer a mystery.

I REALLY wanted to test out that R5 cam though. What I'm thinking, and this may be a bit crazy, is if I drop the pan and replace the rod bearings (hoping that the crank isn't super chewed up, hopefully just scotch brite it a little), maybe I can run it long enough to take it to the dyno again now that I have a 3 bar cal and the 4 bar cal is no longer screwing my top end up. Get it dialed in about 28lb's of boost since I still have C16 in the tank, then swap cams. Again it's all hinging on the fact that the crank isn't super chewed up. I don't care if burns out the bearings on my way home lol I have AAA. That's all I really want is to get that R5 cam tested.


When I end up re-doing everything in the spring I plan to use ARP studs. Anybody know the torque on those? And will they need re-torqued after a few heat cycles? That'd be a real pain to pull the pan just to do that, but now that I've already re-used the stock bolts already I don't really trust to torque them again and hold hopefully 400whp.


BTW I finished my bathroom on Friday

Take the head off and resize the rod (15-20 bucks?) or swap it out with another . The rod is a bigger problem than a slightly out of spec crank journal. As long as your rod is taken care of and the crankshaft is decent I wouldn't bother fixing anything. Guess you want to go ARP head studs and don't want to take the head off yet...I would not do that. Get the studs now if you want to put them in the Spring.

[Pat]

So I think I found out why this happened anyway. I did not realize that with the ARP rod bolts that they aren't torque to yield, so I torqued then same as stock......40ft/lbs and a 1/4 turn. Well I read they are only suppose to have 50ft/lbs and that's it, so I overtorqued the living piss out of them. Great. Well, atleast it's no longer a mystery.

I REALLY wanted to test out that R5 cam though. What I'm thinking, and this may be a bit crazy, is if I drop the pan and replace the rod bearings (hoping that the crank isn't super chewed up, hopefully just scotch brite it a little), maybe I can run it long enough to take it to the dyno again now that I have a 3 bar cal and the 4 bar cal is no longer screwing my top end up. Get it dialed in about 28lb's of boost since I still have C16 in the tank, then swap cams. Again it's all hinging on the fact that the crank isn't super chewed up. I don't care if burns out the bearings on my way home lol I have AAA. That's all I really want is to get that R5 cam tested.


When I end up re-doing everything in the spring I plan to use ARP studs. Anybody know the torque on those? And will they need re-torqued after a few heat cycles? That'd be a real pain to pull the pan just to do that, but now that I've already re-used the stock bolts already I don't really trust to torque them again and hold hopefully 400whp.


BTW I finished my bathroom on Friday

That likely explains it...I've had moments like that also. Sucks, but it happens.

As you suspect, the crank may be damaged, but I'd suspect the rods will be damaged also and will need to be resized. Even without the heat/lock up, that much torque on them will surely misshape the big end.

You could try your plan, but I don't think that I would. I suspect it's going to eat it's next set of bearings quickly, which means that much more junk being circulated around the motor in the oil. Other parts are already at risk with one lock up/bearing issue. Risking it a second time could make your rebuild even more expensive than it already will be.

[turbovanman²]

Agreed with the above guys and ditto, we've all made dumb mistakes.

Also, with new rod bolts, your supposed to tighten and loosen them 3 times before final torque.

Studs, we vary the torque from 85-125 and no retorque is necessary.

[moparzrule]

Sorry for the confusion guys I meant arp main studs not head studs.

[Pat]

I have the main stud torque spec at home...I want to say 30 or 40 with moly lube, but I don't recall for sure. No, you don't have to retorque.

Torque specs are on the AFP site, I believe on the chart that comes in the box.

[moparzrule]

Take the head off and resize the rod (15-20 bucks?) or swap it out with another . The rod is a bigger problem than a slightly out of spec crank journal. As long as your rod is taken care of and the crankshaft is decent I wouldn't bother fixing anything. Guess you want to go ARP head studs and don't want to take the head off yet...I would not do that. Get the studs now if you want to put them in the Spring.

That likely explains it...I've had moments like that also. Sucks, but it happens.

As you suspect, the crank may be damaged, but I'd suspect the rods will be damaged also and will need to be resized. Even without the heat/lock up, that much torque on them will surely misshape the big end.

You could try your plan, but I don't think that I would. I suspect it's going to eat it's next set of bearings quickly, which means that much more junk being circulated around the motor in the oil. Other parts are already at risk with one lock up/bearing issue. Risking it a second time could make your rebuild even more expensive than it already will be.

Yeah I know the rod will be messed up too, just hoping I can get it going long enough just to dyno and that's it. When it comes time to actually fix that I will pull the entire engine again, have the crank turned and block cleaned and just basically rebuild it again.

At that point is when I plan to install ARP main studs, since these bolts have already been torqued twice I don't trust them for a third to hold the power I will be making. I also picked up the head studs as well and a couple 006 headgaskets.

Also, with new rod bolts, your supposed to tighten and loosen them 3 times before final torque.

Thank you Would the same apply to the main studs?

I have the main stud torque spec at home...I want to say 30 or 40 with moly lube, but I don't recall for sure. No, you don't have to retorque.

Torque specs are on the ARP site, I believe on the chart that comes in the box.

Ahh OK, I didn't buy them yet so I didn't know. Thanks

[Ondonti]

Its possible you can get away with your crank but not the rods. It is not worth trying and risking damaging the crankshaft if you still have feelings for the crankshaft.

I did an excessive emery cloth rubdown of a spun journal and I wish I had done a lot less. Just knock down any high spots that might catch on the bearing material, ignore making things look perfect, you will just increase clearances. If your oil film isn't able to prevent metal to metal contact then its going to fail no matter what, scratches will not be the problem. The crankshaft journal that I removed to much from is just beyond the service limit and so I measured a bunch of used bearings and installed the thickest one I had. Put 20w50 in that engine. I have spare crankshafts now but at that time years ago I had just used my only spare and it was the same one that spun due to a damaged oil pump. I swapped out a good rod with a replacement junkyard pump and that motor has not respun yet. I think it will eventually. Tossing in a new bearing is just a bad idea and I wouldn't even bother touching the crankshaft since it will be the rods fault the next time it spins. Scratching some bearing material off with the scruffs on the journal will not be the problem that causes a respin.

BTW, some people might want you to do a line hone of the mains after going with main studs because of increased distortion of the block. In a 6g72, I have gone with mains tightened to 90ft/lb (dsm 1st gen head bolts) in the mains when I was supposed to do 60ft/lb on OEM fasteners and had no problems on multiple engines. I ignored the advice to line hone. The claimed changes of the 6g72 were very small and I questioned the methodology.
I don't know about the 2.2/2.5 block distortion but I would consider line honing, especially if you really up the torque on the fasteners. To me, I don't understand the point of better fasteners if you don't go for increased clamp load.

[moparzrule]

I will do a complete rebuild, including resizing the rods, when I pull it all apart. But right now I don't even want to take the head off, bottom end rod bearing replacement only. Like I said I know it will not last long at all, but all it has to last is the drive to the dyno and a few pulls on the dyno. I'm not interested in trying to get it to last longer by resizing the rods and then putting that back on a questionable crank and most likely an engine with metal floating around in the oil passages. I'm sure the mains have had metal introduced and they are ripping themselves apart now too.

I was only planning on knocking down any high spots. Pretty cold here now to do a cold start on 20w50, I was just going to do 10w40.

I may ruin the crank more, if that's the case I will just find another crank when I rebuild. We know the rods are already trashed. Not super stoked about going .5mm under on the crank anyway. I might try and find a cast 2.2 CB crank for the rebuild.

[Ondonti]

I really don't think your oil filter gave up that easily unless you were racing with full cold oil and the bypass opened.

Once you measure the crankshaft it will no longer be questionable. I do still question the cause. Would be easy to see with the rod removed if that extra clamp distorts the big end enough to be a problem. I see you guys have oil pump shaft issues or just bad pumps and I would still want to go through those more than obsess about bearing materials.

Actual rod failures on the big end are usually due to improper torque (why some people really want to use stretch guages instead) and bearing failures almost always go back to oiling unless the piston was smashing something against the head or you were making 200hp/cylinder and atom bomb detonated a cylinder.

I spent a lot of time putting together a forged crank 2.2 where the owner later refused to get an oil pump and claimed the warning light at idle was a bad connection (owner biased by lack of budget)...and I was even more disappointed when it spun the bearings like I knew it would because all my work was wasted. If you don't feel like fixing it "right" right now or you just don't have the budget, just wait. You will waste your time AND money all to hit a dyno that can wait. Wasted both my time and money in the past rushing the same kinda thing because I was excited about a dyno/race/meet etc. If your crankshaft is usable consider toughing it out in the cold and taking the head off. You will be a lot less frustrated in the end and you won't get the depressing downer of another dyno failure.