88' shelby Z quest for 11's (lots of pics)

[acannell]

I say in this case its 999999 million times more important to get this particular car up and running properly than any concern about Carlisle...this is an epic build and its been a lonnggggggggggg time coming..if something gets rushed or goes wrong again this time it will be no fun zone

[moparzrule]

Thats true I guess.

[acannell]

how about some pics ...havent seen this car in awhile!!

[moparzrule]

I never got motivated to snap any pics because it pretty much looks the same as it did the first time, the only difference in this build and the last one is a cast crank and a G head.....oh and the built hybrid 568 with OBX now as well.

[moparzrule]

It's alive! lol

Took off work today to finish it up. It took all day but it's all back together. Just took it out for a quick test drive, seems good but needs a lot of tuning. While I was eating supper it started raining so I'm done for the night. I could definitely tell the OBX is doing it's job as going through corners I could feel it pulling differently.

Tomorrow night I should have time for more tuning, hopefully get it all done.

Slightly concerned about the oil pressure, doesn't seem to be the greatest for a fresh built engine though it is within spec I think. Once it was hot it was about 8 psi at idle, 20 PSI at 2000 RPM and 40 PSI at 4000. I have not taken it above 4k yet, but it did seem to be pretty linear with RPM IE 3000 RPM was 30 PSI. I am using 5w30 castrol GTX.

[acannell]

It's alive! lol

Took off work today to finish it up. It took all day but it's all back together. Just took it out for a quick test drive, seems good but needs a lot of tuning. While I was eating supper it started raining so I'm done for the night. I could definitely tell the OBX is doing it's job as going through corners I could feel it pulling differently.

Tomorrow night I should have time for more tuning, hopefully get it all done.

Slightly concerned about the oil pressure, doesn't seem to be the greatest for a fresh built engine though it is within spec I think. Once it was hot it was about 8 psi at idle, 20 PSI at 2000 RPM and 40 PSI at 4000. I have not taken it above 4k yet, but it did seem to be pretty linear with RPM IE 3000 RPM was 30 PSI. I am using 5w30 castrol GTX.

Wow really? As in all the performance parts are on and its up and running full blast!! Awesome!!

So where is the list of everything that is in this build anyhoo? Would like to know!

How are you doing the tuning?

[moparzrule]

Wow really? As in all the performance parts are on and its up and running full blast!! Awesome!!

Yup!

So where is the list of everything that is in this build anyhoo? Would like to know!

It's somewhere in the thread, but I'll give the rundown again-

2.2 CB .020 over wiseco's, ARP main studs, TU prepped T2 rods, cast CB crank turned 10/10, ported oil passage
287 G head, ported, new guides, +1mm SS valves, crossdrilled, #4 coolant mod, PT lifters, stock 89 roller cam (for now, TU R5 waiting to go in)
MP 005 gasket, ARP head studs
BMF intake with ported 58mm TB, modded 1 piece rail, 83lb injectors, accufab AFPR
Ported TU header
T04E 57 trim w/.63 stage 3 turbine
TU 3'' SV and straightpipe exhaust
800cfm FMIC
modded talon BOV
Rebuilt A568 hybrid 3.50 FD with OBX
TU 4 puck solid hub disk with yellow plate
underdrive pulley
A/C deleted
3 bar map, could never get the 4 bar to work correctly

Everything behind the front seats completely removed
All speakers removed
wideband, boost, and oil pressure gauges replace the area where the radio goes
FX racing seats installed with manual tracks, probably saved a hundred pounds right there compared to the stock front seats

I have not weighed the car yet, nor did I ever get a pre-stripped weight. Oh well I guess.

How are you doing the tuning?

I'm using MPtune to make adjustments to the cal myself. Just driving it today I'm pretty confident the adjustments I made to the cal will be very close now already. I already had my G head cal from my old shadow that I used as a baseline for the timing tables, I just need to fine tune the fueling now. I'll probably take it to work tomorrow with my laptop, and any further adjustments that need made I'll do them before I head home and see if that worked.

[acannell]

Yup!



It's somewhere in the thread, but I'll give the rundown again-

2.2 CB .020 over wiseco's, ARP main studs, TU prepped T2 rods, cast CB crank turned 10/10, ported oil passage
287 G head, ported, new guides, +1mm SS valves, crossdrilled, #4 coolant mod, PT lifters, stock 89 roller cam (for now, TU R5 waiting to go in)
MP 005 gasket, ARP head studs
BMF intake with ported 58mm TB, modded 1 piece rail, 83lb injectors, accufab AFPR
Ported TU header
T04E 57 trim w/.63 stage 3 turbine
TU 3'' SV and straightpipe exhaust
800cfm FMIC
modded talon BOV
Rebuilt A568 hybrid 3.50 FD with OBX
TU 4 puck solid hub disk with yellow plate
underdrive pulley
A/C deleted
3 bar map, could never get the 4 bar to work correctly

Everything behind the front seats completely removed
All speakers removed
wideband, boost, and oil pressure gauges replace the area where the radio goes
FX racing seats installed with manual tracks, probably saved a hundred pounds right there compared to the stock front seats

I have not weighed the car yet, nor did I ever get a pre-stripped weight. Oh well I guess.



I'm using MPtune to make adjustments to the cal myself. Just driving it today I'm pretty confident the adjustments I made to the cal will be very close now already. I already had my G head cal from my old shadow that I used as a baseline for the timing tables, I just need to fine tune the fueling now. I'll probably take it to work tomorrow with my laptop, and any further adjustments that need made I'll do them before I head home and see if that worked.

Wow this is an awesome build, I really cant wait to see what you get out of it. Do you have a secondary method of monitoring knock during tuning, like headphones or something? Since the knock sensor mount is a bit experimental?

Also, since you are the first person I am aware of besides myself to actually run the BMF, keep an eye on how stressed the TB elbow weld gets. There is alot of leverage on that weld and it needs to be protected from engine torque reaching it via stiff intercooler piping/couplers.

I cant believe this is finally happening!!

How does the engine sound under power? Videos when you are above stock boost levels plz!!

BTW do you have some way of measuring 0-60, 1/8 mile and what not while you tune on the road? Lets see some numbers once you are done tuning! I use the GTR app on my android and it seems to work very well and is very simple and free (or like $1 I forget)

Or do you have a track near your house? I wouldnt be surprised seems like everywhere in PA is drag strips, shooting ranges, hambugers lol

[Force Fed Mopar]

It's alive! lol

Took off work today to finish it up. It took all day but it's all back together. Just took it out for a quick test drive, seems good but needs a lot of tuning. While I was eating supper it started raining so I'm done for the night. I could definitely tell the OBX is doing it's job as going through corners I could feel it pulling differently.

Tomorrow night I should have time for more tuning, hopefully get it all done.

Slightly concerned about the oil pressure, doesn't seem to be the greatest for a fresh built engine though it is within spec I think. Once it was hot it was about 8 psi at idle, 20 PSI at 2000 RPM and 40 PSI at 4000. I have not taken it above 4k yet, but it did seem to be pretty linear with RPM IE 3000 RPM was 30 PSI. I am using 5w30 castrol GTX.

It's not great pressure but does match the generally accepted 10psi per 1000rpm principle. Did you happen to check and see if the block had the oil restrictor installed still before dropping the head on?

[4 l-bodies]

Glad to hear it is up and running Matt. You should be okay on oil pressure. Might try 10-30 oil next oil change and see if pressure comes up. My guess for lower than expected oil pressure could be side clearance on rods. Did you ever measure side clearance of rods installed? Issue could be either rods or crank.
I always question the worth of re-using 25-30 year old TII rods. How many zillions of miles have been run on them and how many times have they been rebuilt? Measuring center to center length sometimes gives a clue how many times they have been rebuilt. For the cost of aftermarket rod options for our motors these days it doesn't cost much more to buy new.
Todd

[moparzrule]

I did not check for the oil restrictor, but I would think that oil pressure would be a lot worse if that wasn't in there. It does run 65 psi on cold startup idling ~1200-1500 rpm. I'm thinking along the lines with todd here about the rods side clearance. I did not check the clearance but these rods have been remanned probably 3 times now.

10w30 vs 5w30 would only affect cold oil pressure, which I don't have a problem with. I used to run 0w40 but thought I could gain a couple HP with less parasitic losses with thinner oil. But I'd rather have good oil pressure, so I might exchange that bottle of 5w30 I have.

[moparzrule]

Swapped out to 10w40 mobil 1. Hot oil pressure is now 10 at idle, 25psi at 2000 RPM and it hits 60 by 4000. Now I'm happier.

[Force Fed Mopar]

the 2.2 in my Shelby Z was missing the restrictor and ran 5psi at idle w/ 20w50, 30-35 revved up. Ran it for 2 years like that before the bearings started showing wear.

[Ondonti]

5w30 has got to be the worst possible oil viscosity spread on the market when you are trying to run cheap nonsynthetic oil. 0w40 synthetic is nothing like 5w30 dinosaur.

Also, running thin oil to reduce parasitic losses but also claiming the oil pressure will be just as high when you warm up is a contradiction but oh well Low temperature running might have reduced losses but you won't race with your oil below 30 degrees...right?

[moparzrule]

Ondonti is that directed at me? I agree with everything you're saying and not sure where you got that I said otherwise if so.

Todd said to run 10w30 VS the 5w30 I was running, which the only thing that would help is cold oil pressure....which I don't have a problem with. 30 weight is 30 weight and it wouldn't matter if I ran 0w30 or 10w30 as it would be the same hot oil pressure.
I said I had a bottle of 5w30 mobil one when I changed the initial break in oil (which was 5w30 dino), but with this lower pressure I better go with a 40 weight to get my oil pressure back up a little higher. I said I didn't really want 40 weight compared to the 30 because of the parasitic losses, but I'd rather have higher hot oil pressure.

With that said, can you explain why you feel 5w30 is bad? Seems like it would be a very good all around oil for cold and hot weather to me and it's personally what I run in my daily driver.

- - - Updated - - -

the 2.2 in my Shelby Z was missing the restrictor and ran 5psi at idle w/ 20w50, 30-35 revved up. Ran it for 2 years like that before the bearings started showing wear.

Yeah mine is not nearly that bad, I was running 5w30 and had better pressure than that so that can't be it.

[Ondonti]

Ondonti is that directed at me? I agree with everything you're saying and not sure where you got that I said otherwise if so.

Todd said to run 10w30 VS the 5w30 I was running, which the only thing that would help is cold oil pressure....which I don't have a problem with. 30 weight is 30 weight and it wouldn't matter if I ran 0w30 or 10w30 as it would be the same hot oil pressure.
I said I had a bottle of 5w30 mobil one when I changed the initial break in oil (which was 5w30 dino), but with this lower pressure I better go with a 40 weight to get my oil pressure back up a little higher. I said I didn't really want 40 weight compared to the 30 because of the parasitic losses, but I'd rather have higher hot oil pressure.

With that said, can you explain why you feel 5w30 is bad? Seems like it would be a very good all around oil for cold and hot weather to me and it's personally what I run in my daily driver.

Because the base oil is 5 weight when you are running dinosaur. Polymers make up the higher temp numbers and when they break down all you have is 5 weight. 5w30 has the largest spread of any dinosaur oil I know of. When you run 20w50, your oil could completely break down and you still have 20 weight oil.
Running a thicker base weight oil really just means you can't beat on it as quickly. On 20w50 I wait for oil temps to drop to hot idle before playing. I switched my daily from 10w30 cheap stuff to 0w40 mobile 1 after a few thousand miles because I wasn't happy with oil pressure after a pass at the drag strip. I probably go a little too long on oil changes too so I wanted an oil that won't break down before I change it. Synthetic doesn't have those same expanding polymers to fake higher viscosity #'s. When those get broken/chopped/overheated they stop working. Turbo center sections are probably the main killer of your oil polymers.

[moparzrule]

OK well the point is still moot since I only had under 100 miles on that break in oil, it certainly wasn't broken down yet.

[acannell]

. I'll probably take it to work tomorrow with my laptop, and any further adjustments that need made I'll do them before I head home and see if that worked.

update!

[moparzrule]

Calibration is spot on, running around 11.8 to 12.0 A/F all the way through WOT. It's making some amazing power on lower boost, and the OBX is worth it's weight in gold I swear. If I had realized how much it would help traction I would have invested in one years ago, totally amazing and I highly highly recommend it. This thing takes off like a bullet now and there's way less torque steer. But I am only running 15 PSI so far.

Props to Ed Papp here in PA (knownenemy) for the trans rebuild, this 568 shifts like butter and the gearing is just amazing I totally love this hybrid gearing.

Another note, switching to an unsprung hub on the clutch seemed to have zero affect on clutch engagement. I would imagine it might make a difference on a 6 puck, but it seemed virtually the same on my 4 puck anyway. I do like stiff and fast engaging clutches though, so take that with a grain of salt.

[acannell]

Calibration is spot on, running around 11.8 to 12.0 A/F all the way through WOT. It's making some amazing power on lower boost, and the OBX is worth it's weight in gold I swear. If I had realized how much it would help traction I would have invested in one years ago, totally amazing and I highly highly recommend it. This thing takes off like a bullet now and there's way less torque steer. But I am only running 15 PSI so far.

Props to Ed Papp here in PA (knownenemy) for the trans rebuild, this 568 shifts like butter and the gearing is just amazing I totally love this hybrid gearing.

Another note, switching to an unsprung hub on the clutch seemed to have zero affect on clutch engagement. I would imagine it might make a difference on a 6 puck, but it seemed virtually the same on my 4 puck anyway. I do like stiff and fast engaging clutches though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Cmon run a 0-60 app and give us SOMETHING!!